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Projects My AV8 flathead build.. blown...

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by hotrodderhaag, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. hotrodderhaag
    Joined: Jan 22, 2007
    Posts: 2,123

    hotrodderhaag
    Member

  2. 31ster
    Joined: Dec 26, 2007
    Posts: 215

    31ster
    Member

    When I put my roadster together I bolted the torque tube to tranny and engine and let that dictate my motor mount position
     
  3. hotrodderhaag
    Joined: Jan 22, 2007
    Posts: 2,123

    hotrodderhaag
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    If I was to do that the heads and intake would hit fire wall. And still come up short
     
  4. Shaun1162
    Joined: Feb 22, 2010
    Posts: 809

    Shaun1162
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    Thats going to be an amazing AV8 when its done... Can't wait to see it finished!
     
  5. Russco
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 4,167

    Russco
    Member
    from Central IL

    You have to Mock up everything first. The fuel pump stand is a problem on the early motors for clearence at the firewall. Everything has a direct effect on everything else fitting and working out. The Book is not set in stone on measurements Mine had a few mis prints or whatever that if I would have used the measurements from the book it would not have worked out. Take your time and mock up everything you possibly can before you make a decision on where things are going to go. Your Fab work looks great! Just take your time and mock up everything. Its going to be a really nice build.
     
  6. hotrodderhaag
    Joined: Jan 22, 2007
    Posts: 2,123

    hotrodderhaag
    Member

    Luckily the mounts are only welded on top, very easily movable.. So u guys are saying I need to figure out how to move it back,? I used the book as guide. My measurements are alot different than the book. Ill be back at it tomorrow. I looked at a couple other builds and it looked like they just set it in place.. I'm about ready to cap off the fuel pump and oil fill and run electric pump. Life would be easy that way... But it's not what they would have used in 1950
     
  7. hotrodderhaag
    Joined: Jan 22, 2007
    Posts: 2,123

    hotrodderhaag
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    One thing I did run into was the intake is 1 inch shorter on the aluminum than the cast one where the fuel pump bolts on. So I had to modify the push rod and guide tube also.
     
  8. Russco
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 4,167

    Russco
    Member
    from Central IL

    I dont know if you can move it back much, the last thing I did on mine was make the torque tube / drive shaft fit the car. After I had the motor and trans where it needed to be to work with the firewall/ and radiator. Then I shortened a '40 torque tube and made my shaft from a cut to fit kit from Dick Spadaro.
     
  9. FiddyFour
    Joined: Dec 31, 2004
    Posts: 9,007

    FiddyFour
    Member

    i'd either do what Russco suggests with the torque tube and shaft, OR reverse the firewall... leaves you with less room in the car, but solves your pump stand troubles
     
  10. hotrodderhaag
    Joined: Jan 22, 2007
    Posts: 2,123

    hotrodderhaag
    Member

    i wont reverse the fire wall. im gonna go home tonight and see what i can do. who makes these torque tube kit?
    there is plenty or shaft inside the u jount housing. the collar is just 1 inch off . thought about cutting collar and adding a 1 inch ring behine the flange to exted the flange to the trans..
    i want it to work good but i didnt wanna cut up my stock tube . ill do what i gotta do though.
     
  11. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,351

    revkev6
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    from ma

    there is another option. You have a stock model a rear in that thing still. it will be more work... but you could pick up a 40 rear and put it in. this will have a longer driveshaft that can be cut down to fit wherever you want to put your motor. the problem comes on the other end. instead of having the spring over the axle tubes it is behind. you need to move your rear crossmember back or make new spring perch mounts on top of the 40 tubes....

    with the extra horsepower you are putting to that rear over a stock A I would think the stronger 35-48 gears would be a good idea anyway.

    the torque tube kits are for the later rear ends to be cut down shorter. If I remember correctly your model A driveshaft is one piece and cannot be removed with removing the pinion. later rears have a two piece setup with a coupler back at the banjo.
     
  12. FiddyFour
    Joined: Dec 31, 2004
    Posts: 9,007

    FiddyFour
    Member


    Dick Spadaro early ford makes a kit. i think its about $250-$300 :eek: , but thats about what you're going to pay to have your shaft shortened and resplined anyhow, if not more. . . last item on this page here :cool:

    http://dickspadaro.com/quickchange.htm
     
  13. FiddyFour
    Joined: Dec 31, 2004
    Posts: 9,007

    FiddyFour
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    yes, i believe he's right, the spadaro kit is for later driveshaft setups only :(

    sorry dude, looks like no easy solution :mad:
     
    Budweiser likes this.
  14. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,351

    revkev6
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    from ma

    btw, did you throw a radiator on that thing with the motor in place to check your radiator clearance??
     
  15. hotrodderhaag
    Joined: Jan 22, 2007
    Posts: 2,123

    hotrodderhaag
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    yes i have plenty of room. it lookes good as far as clearance.. im gonna see what i can do to slide the motor back some. becuase i left clearance for that breather on the pump stand. so im considering running a smaller breather wich will give me about 3/4 room. and i think i can make that work.
     
  16. continentaljohn
    Joined: Jul 24, 2002
    Posts: 4,780

    continentaljohn
    Member

    I have made the ring to extend the motor forward and works great. I think in your build, the firewall needs to be pushed back a inch because of the length of the waterpumps with the extra pully. I just drilled out my rivets and removed the firewall from its original location. It will move back a inch and trimmed the very bottom of the firewall 2 inches form the bottom. Redrill the were the firewall mounting holes are and WA LA extra inch. You also will not be goofing up your gastank You can move the firewall back to were it is flat like a 32 would be but you will need to trim the ring (backside)of the firewall on the bottom more.
     
  17. hotrodderhaag
    Joined: Jan 22, 2007
    Posts: 2,123

    hotrodderhaag
    Member

    im not so mch worried a bout the stock a rear for now. im not going to be really hammering on it, i have to much invested. i like to just drive it. nice and easy... for now anyways.. i checked the splines and they are all the way in the yoke on the trans. so i think im gonna cut the joint collar and extend it.it will be fine . someday i wanna put thsi car on a 32 chassis anyways so it will all change then. but thats someday... i like the idea of moving my firewall back, but i really cant touch the body of this car.. its too nice. i dont wanna do anything to change that.
    thats one thing i told myself when i was starting this project "the body stays bone stock or it will stay a 4cyl" so im trying to stick to that,,
     
  18. Carter
    Joined: Mar 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,422

    Carter
    Member

    Oops, never mind, misunderstood what you were wanting to do.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  19. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,351

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma


    you mean make the U-joint longer on the spline side?? I've never heard of that being done. seems a bit scary to me actually. I guess you could do it on the trans side since it bolts to the output shaft but then you need to space the rear trans mount out from the trans too. just make sure whatever side you extend the u joint on is the side that you extend the ball connection from. if you extend the u joint on the trans side, and add in a section to the torque tube you will break the u joint :eek:


    personally though, I don't like this option. my option would be to make the 40 rear work (even if you just weld perches on top of the axle)!!!! your model A rear has 4.11 gears in it minimum. a 40 rear will most likely have 3.78 gears.
     
  20. hotrodderhaag
    Joined: Jan 22, 2007
    Posts: 2,123

    hotrodderhaag
    Member

    no,
    what i mean is the 2 piece collar that goes around the tube and bults to the trans..... i wanna cut the bolt patter flange off of it, weld 1 inch rolled ring in it and weld the flange back on.. like widening a wheel... ive seen it done before.
     
  21. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,351

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma

    and do what with the lost 1" worth of splines at the driveshaft end?? another thing is, this will put your ball joint and your U-joint out of alignment because the u joint bolts up to the transmission. the ball will push 1" back but the u joint will stay up tight to the transmission.
     
  22. rocksolidnate
    Joined: Feb 4, 2013
    Posts: 121

    rocksolidnate
    Member
    from Viroqua Wi

    the right motor setup can make a car and you got it, love the the flathead!
     
  23. Russco
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 4,167

    Russco
    Member
    from Central IL

    I forgot you're running the stock banjo that will complicate things as far as lengthening the tube/shaft I would swap a 40 banjo and tube in there like mentioned above and they show in the book. The drive shaft in the model a is part of the pinion gear unlike the later banjo that is coupled with a splined coupler.
     
  24. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,563

    Elrod
    Member

    Before you locate your motor mounts, just hook your flathead trans and engine to the stock model a rear end. This is the perfect location for not cutting the firewall and fan clearance.

    Then once your trans and engine is located, then upgrade to the later rear if you like. They are indeed stronger. The pinion is supported and wont try to crawl away from the ring like on a Model A.

    I'm still running the stock Model A rear in my almost identical engine/trans/supercharger combo as yours. The rear and torque tube are not modified in any way and I did not have to make any cuts in my firewall or move my radiator. Stock hood still fits on the car also.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013
  25. I'm in favor of the later rear end, not only should it work but the gears would be a plus. Or if you can really get that vent to clear that extra bit like you mentioned, you'd scathe a bullet. Great things don't come easy. just remember that.
     
  26. OLDTGUY
    Joined: Jan 16, 2013
    Posts: 88

    OLDTGUY
    Member

    Subscribed JJ
     
  27. hotrodderhaag
    Joined: Jan 22, 2007
    Posts: 2,123

    hotrodderhaag
    Member

    Elrod,
    I did exactly what u said when I got home from work... It does go back far enough to couple. However the pump stand hits the firewall and I cannot put the rubber bushings in the mounts. Makes the engine tilt up in the front and pulls it out 3/4 of an inch . I thought about dimpling the firewall behind the fuel pump stand
     
  28. yeah I was kinda thinking that, I don't think it would look bad at all with a nice verticle dimple. You wouldn't be obstructing the originality any more than you have. Its a good thing. plus it would be cheaper.
     
  29. Kiwifruit
    Joined: Apr 21, 2006
    Posts: 199

    Kiwifruit
    Member

    Look at Elrod's build thread again, he modified his pump stand to clear the firewall, a better alternative i think.
     
  30. hotrodderhaag
    Joined: Jan 22, 2007
    Posts: 2,123

    hotrodderhaag
    Member

    If you look back in my pics I also modified mine . Still hits
     

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