The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by LM14, Apr 14, 2018.
......Thats funny...and your justifications for paint sequencing all good...
Tonight I started on the other rain gutters. This glass body has rain gutters. Taped a uniform line then defined the edge that meets the roof to a square corner. Used an assortment of files and tape guidelines. When I started truing the actual drip rail I noticed the right one was considerably shorter at the front than the back. I laid an old piece of battery cable in the gutter and it was swallowed at the back and stuck out at the front. Added some 3/8” brake line above that and made a smooth mold with masking tape. Taped a line down the gutter face so I had a uniform reference and to cut down on the sanding. Added some kitty hair to build up the front. When it started to kick I used an Exacto knife and cut the tubing and cable back out. When it was fairly firm I removed the remaining tape. Couple quick passes with the long cheese grater and I had a uniform gutter height. Sanded and fill primer shows the pinholes that need attention. Came out looking muck better. Other side is much more uniform and shouldn’t take nearly the effort.
Also finished up the mud and sanding on the trunk gutter. Few spots need some glaze but shouldn’t take much to finish it. Tomorrow’s project unless I don’t sleep tonight!
Really nice work! Its going to look killer when you’re done!
Spent most of the afternoon with the painter coming up to rub the whole body looking for concerns or issues. He seems pretty happy with what he saw. Decision was made for me to finish everything to 320 grit and put a last coat of primer on here. Then when the time comes for it to go to him, he will scuff that coat and fix any issues he finds. Then he’ll add his hi build primer and work it until it’s down to 500 grit and shoot it. We have a plan everyone is comfortable with.
Started on correcting the A pillar areas and working the openings around the windshield and back glass. Got most of the roof sanded and the shape is coming in nicely so far.
Off day tomorrow. Time for labs and another infusion treatment. That pretty much kills tomorrow.
Usually don’t sleep the night after I get an infusion. Last night was no exception. Spent a few hours working on the top of the roof. Really nice shape. One tiny low spot is all that I have found.
Decided the time had come to deal with the windshield opening and the wiper motor mounting area. Needed to add a little bump to go around the washer holding the wiper motor in the header. Big glob of mud then carved about 90% of it with an Exacto knife while it was still soft. Came out pretty decent. To me, these are the little details that make the difference.
Spent most of today cleaning up the rest of the area around the windshield. Would have been easier if I had removed the windshield and frame but I only left the seal area to finish when the time comes to paint the main body.
I don’t think my”A” pillars look like they are the correct shape. Have an old friend with a real Henry ‘32 that was hot rodded back in the ‘50’s. I’ve never seen it. Got a call in to him so I can go up and make some templates of the shape of his “A” pillars. Think that’s about the last thing I have to correct then we start fixing the little things. Some pinholes and a couple shallow low spots remain and then I need to cover the whole thing with 320 grit again.
I’m in Marshalltown if you’d like to come up and see some real 32’s. You can make all the templates you want.
Told the wife you were my backup plan!
Decided part of my A pillar problem was the gap between the window frame and the A pillar was all over the place. Made an aluminum shim so I had a uniform gap and taped it in place. Then filled the void with mud. Little bit of sanding and it looks much better. Meeting with my friend tomorrow to measure the A pillar on his original ‘32. That way I can nail down the details.
Just keeps getting better and better!
Started on the doors! Very shallow low spots to deal with but several of them. I tackle them a few at a time to keep track of where they are. Get those done and move on to another handful. Some guys would slather the whole door with mud and start sanding. Too much work.
Spent some time this afternoon with an old friend with his real ‘32 5 window. He’s owned it since ‘62.
Defined the shape of the A pillar much better. Still some work to do but it’s a lot closer.
If you want your car to look more like a Ford, you should remove the bulge you added above the wiper. Just use a bigger grommet. And you should sand the sharp edge off the inside edge of the window opening. Where the fuzzies fit against the outer skin, the edge didn't roll in with a sharp corner. This is always a big giveaway to a glass car.
Good work on all the rest though. Probably smoother than any real Ford will ever be.
The bulge I'll keep, adds character.
I've wondered about the door/window opening edges before. Looked at the real one today and have a better idea for those now. A couple areas of mine just aren't right in the window opening area. Plans to make some modifications to get a better "look". The little lip at the front edge of the door window opening on mine is also about twice as long as it should be.
My lip is a lot longer.
Thanks for keeping me honest!
Another trick to make it look like a real Ford is to make the door gaps uneven.
I'll skip that one. Also no phantom patch panels, rust or patina.
2nd A pillar pretty much done. Glaze should take care of any issues from here on out. Much happier with the shapes now. Good transition at the bottom and the edges are straight. Little more work on the rain gutter and we’ll call the area done!
Now to spend a day putting tools away and sweeping up another round of sanding dust. Sure made a mess.
...uhh @LM14 you don't think you can post pics of your Buddies seriously interesting Vintage Totally Hamb Friendly Hotrod and not start a craving to know more about it do you...
Is he a member get him on and share that time capsule and its history...please...
Also keep up the process of getting it right...
You Da Man...Thank You very much...
Door day at the Park house! Have the right door as far as I can go until the body is mounted on the frame. Then I can match things across the door gaps and finish them up. Left door is blocked and ready to prep for filler.
Waiting for the doc to call and reschedule my appointment to reset my heart and get me out of this damned AFIB! All this sanding runs me out of breath and makes my muscles burn like nothing you have probably experienced. Getting really tired of getting really tired.
Great work. The only thing I would suggest is to take another look at the leading edge of the rain gutter at th bottom. Yours look too 90*ish. I believe there is a little of a radius there. Good luck with the medical situation you sure don't need any with the project!
Thanks, took some pics of the original one yesterday so I have a better idea of where to head.
I checked the front posts on my sedan right next to the windshield frame today, and they have that little whoop-de-do in them that you just removed a couple days ago. The molds for your body were right on.
Mine had no straight edge on the windshield frame side. Right side was totally different than the left was. It was a bow and was pretty rough right where the original car (they made the molds off of) was chopped. It also had a big piece of this beaded area missing on the outside edge. That beaded area disappeared about 5 or 6" down from the top and the A pillar was kind of a blob from that point to the bottom. The original car I looked at it disappeared at the very bottom and was bare metal so it was easy to see exactly what it looked like. That car is also chopped and had some "wiggles" in the windshield frame side of the pillar. I think the car this mold was made from is fairly represented but I don't think it was totally symmetrical from right to left. We can do better. This stuff could drive a person crazy!
Left door is done (until I can work across the door gap after the body is back on the frame). Shape feels good and looks right.
On to the trunk lid!
Getting to the point of "too perfect to be steel". Great attention to detail.
Started on the trunk lid. Made all the holes they cut on the inside skin the same diameter and cleaned up the edges. Still need to scuff the inside. Blocked the outside to get an idea how wavy it is. Going to take a bit of mud. Not horrible but a fair amount of work and I’m about shot! Will probably do one more round of blocking with fresh paper before starting with the mud.
Spent a couple more hours tonight prepping the inside. Sanded and scuffed then a coat of hi build. About 25-30 small imperfections to take care of. Glaze should handle all of them.
Really tempted to remove the other trunk hinge bosses but I’m thinking upholstery will cover them. Thoughts?
Looking good. Couple of questions on your process. What filler are you using and is there any issues with it bonding to the fiberglass? What grit paper do you use? I saw that you also used some of the kitty hair filler, is that on thicker build up areas? Also what primer are you using at this point? It looks like you have a good system going. What happens if you sand all the way thru the gelcoat into the glass in small areas to fix a high spot? I have a glass body that I need to start working on and you look like you have a great handle on getting everything straight and true.
I'll answer your questions with the way I was taught to do these things a million years ago, others will think I'm crazy or have a different way of doing the same things. That's fine. This is how I do things.
The greenish filler I am using is Rage Gold. It works well and sands great. Absolutely no issues with bonding. For pinholes you can see I prefer to use a stubby (actually double ended) 3/16 drill bit and open the area up a bit and really clean out all the loose/fragile edges back to solid material. I get in and route it out as needed. Bigger holes are easier to fill and you won't have surprises down the road as you sand. In normal areas, I prep with 120 grit, use air to blow the area clean then wipe it down with lacquer thinner before mixing the putty. Then I blow it clean again before spreading. Any dust will kill your bond, it has to be clean. I force it into place first with a narrow spreader, then go back with a wider spreader and shape it. When it starts to kick I throw out anything not used by that time, don't try to stretch it. Also, at that time, I shape the larger ridges or trim gaps back with an Exacto knife and/or a piece of 80 or 120 grit. You can do a lot of preliminary shaping with an Exacto knife when the putty is still rubbery. Sanding at that point fills the paper fast but saves a lot of sanding time down the road. I use an older piece of paper for this step, don't waste the new stuff. Don't smooth things down at that time, just knock down the extreme high spots and maybe a little rough shaping if needed. Then I let it cure completely before final shaping. I always use 120 grit on boards or foams to shape filler. Good tooth on the surface, clean surface, work the putty into that surface then shape and sand.
I'm using all dry paper, no wet sanding on my end. Starting with 120 grit to knock the shine off the gel coat 95% of the time. In some areas it will take more work (trunk gutter area as an example), I'll use 80 grit to take the majority of the issue out and prep for any fillers. The only time I'm using 80 grit is when I use my DA. Personal preference. All the 120 was done with sanding blocks, boards and foams. I have a long air sanding board that hasn't been used at all on this project. Mostly by hand, I can feel the surface better and feel like I have more control. Sanding with fingertips is a last resort and should be avoided. Guys claim they do it without problem but their work won't be as straight. It will have waves in it. The one time I break my sanding with fingers rule is in tight areas where I can't get a block. Very small areas and very light pressure. Try to fold paper to the shape of the area and let the paper do the work, not the pressure if your fingertips. I never sand in a straight line if I can avoid it. Always in a cross hatch pattern. Especially on something as round as this car. Sanding in a straight line on a curved car will lead to flat spots and ridges, not smooth flowing curves. I'm following up with 320 grit before priming. That's as fine as I'm going, the painter will take it a step further when
it's in his hands. His plan is to do 320 dry and block over everything I've done. Then he will make any repairs that blocking reveals and cover his repairs with his hi build (much, much thicker than my "filler" primer). Then block it down to 500 grit before sealing and shooting color. His paint system calls for 500 grit under it's non-metallic single stage.
I use kitty hair to build up areas that will need a lot of work or larger pinholes in the base material. I prefer the short strand unless you are building up a very large area or using it to bond (like mounting a fiberglass hood scoop to a fiberglass hood). Nothing on this car warrants using the long strand in my eyes. I just don't trust straight putty as much for building base/shape. Kitty Hair seems a bit more....structural. I also use kitty hair to bond wood or metal pieces to the fiberglass body where needed. These days panel bonder would probably be a better answer for that, but I'm not set up for it. I was taught to match the filler to the substrate. If I'm removing voids and cleaning them up in prep for filling and I get into the base fiberglass layers, I'll use kitty hair. If it's in an area the body builder has already used filler to do his work (or it's an area I built with Rage Gold and find a void), I will use the Rage Gold in those areas. I want my filler to match the original base in that area as much as possible, it's how I was taught.
For primer there are probably better answers to be totally honest. I'm actually using DupliColor filler primer. I had about a half gallon left from another project so it's what I started with. It works fairly well, isn't as heavy as most filler primers and you can get it at the local parts stores. Part of the time I'm using rattle can if I don't feel like getting the gun out and cleaning it when done. My left over half gallon is almost gone so I will probably just finish with rattle cans. Not much left to do. I also tested it under the single stage we are using for compatibility before any went on the car. No issues there. The painter was comfortable with it being under everything and it gives a good surface to sand and work with on the pinholes. No problem with it not forming a good bond with the underlying gel coat, fiberglass or putty. Actually works pretty well and I'm very happy with it's quality. His hi build is much heavier and will allow more blocking to be done than this will. This does seal putty and worked areas well plus it's convenient.
I've sanded thru gel coat several times. I just keep going until I get the shape I want/need. It's going to happen when working with glass bodies, no way around it in my eyes. It's also going to reveal a lot of pinholes and voids in the base body material that gel coat was hiding. This body is thick and doesn't use common fiberglass resins. It's a different formula resin very similar to fiberglass but more expensive and very stable. It's made with isocyanate resin(?). I'm not a chemist but it's supposed to be more stable to resist expansion/contraction better, more resistant to cracks and scratches and hold it's shape better. You work over/with it just like fiberglass. One of the differences I've found is when I break thru the gel coat I don't have all these loose strands I have had with other 'glass bodies in the past. This one seems to be more completely saturated and bonded together. Maybe it's just the workmanship or maybe it's the nature of the resin, I don't know. I do know I have only had to deal with one small area being "fuzzy" when I went thru the gel coat. My body is up to 1" thick in areas. About the thinnest area I have found is just over 1/4" thick. I have a lot of material to work with so that 's not a concern on this car. If the body was thinner, I w ould still work it like it needed to be then build up the backside in thin areas with more resin and mat. When I go thru gel coat I have a couple of options to consider. First, if it's nice and tight I'll just use primer over it so re-seal the area. This is a very well built body, that is what I usually deal with when I sand thru on this car. The builder of the body even showed me a couple small areas that would need extra work because of a flaw in his mold showing thru. He said sand thru the gel coat and use filler primer over it to re-seal the area. Second, if I have looser glass mat there (fuzzy areas), I will mix up some normal fiberglass resin and top coat that area to seal it up. I've had one area I had to do that and it was fairly small. Then sand and work the area as normal. Just depends on how it opens up.
Something you didn't ask about is glaze. I use a 3M acrylic glazing putty out of a tube. It's a last step for me. I only fill scratches or tiny pinholes with it. After primer is dry, I go over the area with a very bright LED light and look at every square inch for imperfections. Pinholes, deep scratches for glaze or deeper areas that need more putty work. I do not build any structure or shape with glaze, never. It can be used for very shallow low spots, shadow areas. It gets dry sanded with 120 grit then 320 just like everything else. I apply with my finger and "swirl" the area to fill in pinholes from all sides and really stuff the hole full. If it's a shallow low spot it gets put on with a spreader just like Rage or Kitty hair would. Only the tiniest shallow holes get this treatment, like a tiny series of air bubble holes in filler. 95% of it will be sanded back off, leaving only filler in the scratch or pinhole. Don't try to build shape of any depth with glaze, you will regret it.
That's the method to my madness. Right, wrong or indifferent, it's how I do things. It seems to work for me. I suggest buying Dura Blocks and shaped foam sanding blocks from somebody like Eastwoods. I like sticky back sandpaper. Buy a roll of 120 and a roll of 320. Amazon has great prices on good paper. Don't buy cheap paper. Easy to work with. I like the Rage Gold to work with as my surface finish. I like Kitty Hair as my base building material. Don't be afraid to sand thru the gel coat (others are screaming right now) but it can always be sealed with either primer or more resin. Don't be afraid to add more putty (I prefer to do several thin coats and work each coat a little as opposed to a thick coat and a lot of sanding). I find thin coats let me keep track of progress better and thick coats make me lose definition of the problem area. Don't be afraid to grind it out and start over, it's only fiberglass and putty! Close your eyes and run your hands over the product. You will feel more issues than you will see.
Any more questions feel free to ask. I'll share what works for me. Others will say I'm nuts (probably am) but I've done it this way for 45 years and never had anything fall out.
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