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Technical Mustang T-5 to Flathead

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Tubes and Flatheads, Mar 3, 2018.

  1. I find lots of posts regarding the T-5 from the S-10, but few about the Ford T-5, so I need some help!
    I want to keep my conversion as vintage and as Ford as possible, so my plan is to use:
    My 1949 V8 Flathead
    My aluminum flywheel (steel insert) with 11" pressure plate and clutch from a 50 truck
    My 4-speed hogshead (from the same truck) which swallows the big pressure plate and has a bolt pattern common with a Ford T-5, which will also share 10-spline connection with the clutch
    My alloy driveshaft from a police interceptor (2000, 4R70W transmission)
    I have read that not all Ford T-5s have the same input shaft length and pilot bearing. The transmission is the one element of this which I have not purchased, so which T-5s fit the best?
    The police interceptor and T-5 both use a 28 spline shaft, but the slip yoke on the PI is .090" larger in outer (barrel) diameter and is longer. Can a swap the seal on the T-5 to a larger one to use the existing yoke? Is there a problem with extra length on the yoke?
    Any issues with the throw-out bearing?
    What did I fail to ask?
     
  2. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 3,331

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you are going to use a T-5
    Look at the gear ratios, for one
    Look at the shifter placement for another between the two S-10 and Mustang, might be a reason why the S-10 seems to be the transmission of choice....
     
  3. PINEAPPLE
    Joined: Aug 26, 2012
    Posts: 424

    PINEAPPLE
    Member

    I built an f1 pickup with a t5 a few years ago, there are a few picks in an album on my profile page. I used a t5 from a 89-90 mustang along with a tail housing from an early 80's s10 so I could use my original speedo cable. I dont remember what the output spline count was, however I had the yoke for the trans already and needed a custom driveshaft built anyhow, so the stock seal and yoke were retained. I used a hogs head as well, but I just used the clutch disc for the year mustang that the trans was from along with the ford pressure plate. I used the throwout bearing and housing from the hogshead as well, however the ID is bigger than the OD of the input shaft housing on the t5, which is good, I was able to machine a piece of oil impregnated bronze to press fit in the ford throwout housing and hone it to a slip fit on the t5. The t5 input snout fit the flathead pilot bushing which was nice. I dont know what car you are building and what the end use is, but gear ratio choice is something to look at. I built a rear axle with 3:54 ratio and used the t5 with .8 overdrive I think it was. Way overgeared, I rarely used 5th gear, as I was pushing the brick of a pickup thru the wind and 5th would have me starting at 80mph or so. I should have kept the 4:11 in the rear or used an s10 trans with the more truck like ratios. I know this wont answer all your questions, but hopefully it helps narrow down your choice a bit.
    Matt
     
  4. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    As they said, the big rub with using a Mustang T-5 is shifter location. It works if you run buckets and want the shifter back close to you like a Mustang has. If you run a bench seat and want the shifter up where a stock shifter would be it doesn't work.
    I've got two of those hogsheads and don't believe that either uses the late Ford bolt pattern. You might want to check that real close. I could be wrong but you are the first one I ever saw who said that you could bolt a late Ford T-5 directly to the hogshead without an adapter. If it was that easy everyone would be doing it.
     

  5. RICK R 44
    Joined: Dec 13, 2009
    Posts: 474

    RICK R 44
    Member

    The input shaft on the 4 cyl versions of the Mustang T 5 is about 3/16 longer than the V8 version. Modern Driveline inc (208 453 9800) makes a spacer plate, they also make a kit to adapt to a mechanical spedo drive
     
  6. I've got a WC T5 out of a 1990 Mustang with a V8. It's been behind an 8ba. As you can see the shifter has been relocated forward considerably. It shifts with zero resistance and is buttery smooth. I bought it off an old mechanical engineer who was doing a 350/TH350 swap into his truck. 20160317_170003.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  7. But I thought that everything on the internet was true!
    Mr48Chev is correct and the bolt patterns are not the same, although I could point you to two web sites which claim that they are.
    That is OK as it appears that all three input shaft lengths used by the Mustang T5 are longer then the input shafts of the 3 and 4 speed toploaders on the Flatheads, so I would have needed a spacer anyway.
    I do prefer the "back close" shifter position so I am OK with that.
    So to rephrase my questions:
    Is the guide tube for the throw out bearing suitable on the Mustang T5?
    Can I use the police interceptor slip yoke with a different seal on the T5?
    How thick does my spacer need to be between hogshead and T5?
     
  8. dmdeaton
    Joined: Nov 25, 2017
    Posts: 502

    dmdeaton
    Member

    IMG_8571.JPG IMG_8561.JPG
    I bought this whole conversion from a fellow in KY. Other than splitting the crossmember almost in half, I like the setup. But it is 4 banger.
     
  9. V8 Bob
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,966

    V8 Bob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I am using a '89 Mustang T-5 with an S-10 tail housing behind a '51 Mercury bell. I think '87-'93 Mustang T-5s have the same length inputs and bolt pattern. This requires a 1" thick adapter (because of the 1" longer input) that fits any '49-'53 Ford/'51-'53 Mercury car narrow pattern 4-bolt bell housing, available from Modern Drive Train and maybe others. I'm also using the stock '51 Merc throw-out bearing.
    I'm not sure of the depth comparison between the truck 3" 1/2 bell/hogs head combo and the car full bell housings, something that directly relates to the intended trans input length.
    The Mustang input spline is 1 1/16 x10, not the truck 1 3/8" x10, so a different clutch plate will be needed. You also may want to re-think using the truck 11" pressure plate; a modern diaphragm is a much better choice than the obsolete Long style. (Ford hasn't used the Long since the '70s-is that "vintage enough?) Less pedal effort and lower price are two main advantages. A common off the shelf 10.4" diaphragm will bolt to any '49-'53 Mercury flywheel or aftermarket with the B&B bolt pattern. There are some direct replacement diaphragms that bolt to Long pp patterns.
    Below is the Merc bell and 1" adapter (MCF in my case)

    upload_2018-3-4_8-52-50.jpeg

    .... the engine/trans...
    upload_2018-3-4_8-56-26.jpeg

    ...and the diaphragm clutch...
    upload_2018-3-4_9-27-6.jpeg
     
  10. Phil P
    Joined: Jan 1, 2018
    Posts: 492

    Phil P
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    With that style of linkage you could put the shifter where ever you want. I can't tell from the picture does the base of the shifter go into some kind of ball and socket.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  11. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 8,801

    Marty Strode
    Member

    Bob, You are always a wealth of information, and the pics to go along with it ! Thanks.
     
  12. Bob,
    Your installation looks great!
    Does the diaphragm have the same travel and actuation height as the long pressure plate so that the same clutch pedal linkage and throw out bearing can be used?
    IMG_2578.JPG
    And your color choice is perfect!
     
  13. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,397

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    Several years ago I did a 32 roadster with a 59L and a Mustang trans with an S10 tailshaft. I used a bell housing from Shadow Rods with a Mustang 10 inch diaphragm pressure plate and disc. I just used the parts Shadow Rods recommended. Worked great.
     
  14. This is what I doing right now, ford t5 hogs head alu spacer. So how do you install the trans? From in the car, like stock that’s looking hard to do or pull out the frame adapter and install it from underneath??

    Oh ya what about clutch linkage? The hod head has a funny shaped end no way to use a stock arm.

    Any help would would help

    Mike


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  15. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 5,256

    sloppy jalopies
    Member

    have a bum leg and the '96 ranger I bought for the 4 cylinder engine has a 5 speed standard [rear wheel drive]… is that a tranny you guys use ?
    I am looking for a 4 cylinder automatic... trades ?
     
  16. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,484

    tjm73
    Member

    '96 Ranger had a 2.5 SOHC based Lima engine. They were backed with a M5OD-R1 transmission that has the bell housing cast integrally into the transmission case. They only fit the 2.3/2.5 SOHC engines.

    EDIT: for clarity-
    The 2.3/2.5 and the 3.0 and the 4.0 and the 300 I6/302 V8 M5OD transmissions all have specific cases unique to each engine family.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
    luckylou likes this.
  17. sloppy jalopies
    Joined: Jun 29, 2015
    Posts: 5,256

    sloppy jalopies
    Member

  18. Reidy
    Joined: May 13, 2016
    Posts: 221

    Reidy
    Member

    Mate the attached diagram is from Australia so you may have to turn it up side down :). From what I understand there are two bolt patterns and multiple shaft splines and lengths. Hope this helps as a starting point.

    Steve
    T5-shaft-lengths.jpg
     
    alanp561 likes this.
  19. My 89 ranger has a 5.0 and a AOD trans still 4 wheel drive


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     

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