Mustang II front end alignment HELP!

I have a Mustang II front end on my 40. I put on the big brake kit, which moved the wheels out 1 inch or so. I also did dropped Spindles. Nothing to change geometry. Lower control arms are flat horizontal with crossmember as they should be....

Here is the issue.... or is this an issue?

When I look at the car from the front, it looks like the tires are toe'd out. I realize some is perhaps an optical illusion because of the fenders ect...so I measured the out tread on the tire front and rear.... And they are toed out?

there is less or roughly an inch difference, so they are toe'd out just about an inch total.

The car drives straight, steering wheel straight. No pull not even when braking. I have read that sometimes shops will go out on the toe to achieve driveability, factoring in the Mustang II was designed for narrow tires. If I take it to a shop, and they adjust it to specs, I have heard spec can cause bump steer?

So is toe out bad enlight of the fact it steers straight down the road....Anybody elses toed out?

 

1 inch of toe out is very bad! Shoot for 1/16 to 1/8 in.

Hoop

 

Seems like the tires would squeel (sp) like hell going sround a corner and wear out very fast also. 1/8-1/4" out should be near right

 

Sorry that should be toed IN

 

Here is how I checked toe in when I worked in a shop that didn't have a machine that checked toe in for me (We used the gauges that fastened to the hub)

Jack up the car and scribe a line on the center of each tire tread with a pencil by rotating the tire while you hold the pencil against the tread. It helps if you have something to steady your hand.

Then let the car down with the tires pointing straight ahead bounce the suspension a couple ot times to settle things out and have a helper hold the end of the tape measure against the line on the back side of one tire while you measure to the line on the other tire and then go to the front side and do the same. The difference is toe in or toe out.

Doing it this way will take wheel or tire runout out of the picture and will give you an exact spot to measure to rather than guessing if you have it right front to rear.

Sigihting down the tires to the rear tires doesn't always work due to differences in tire size and wheel width and offset.

 

Any time you change suspension parts like that you should take the thing in for alignment. No 2 parts are identical specialy in the aftermarket like your New Dropped Spindles. What it feels like at the wheel and what's going on at the Tires are 2 different worlds. Call your alignment Guy and make an appointment.
The Wizzard

 

how did you measure this 1 inch of toe out?

 

This is just plain Silly. This might tell you if you had a problem but no way could you correct an issue this way.
The Wizzard

 

Specs are 1/8" +- 1/8" - toe in.

 

They're asking how to do, not how to pass it off to somebody else. You should pick up a wrench sometime.

 

Really? Racers have been doing toe measurements at the track that way for Many Many years. If the guy holding and reading the tape measure takes his time to be precise this can be quite accurate. It may not be as accurate as the latest and greatest laser machines, but with care you can easily get within a 1/16" and that is more than adequate.
In fact the Uniroyal Tire store I worked at in the 70's did all toe sets this way, it was in the manual for the Hunter Alignment rack we had

 

Jack up the car just enough to spin the tire and paint a line on the center of each tire tread with a SprayPaint Can flat on the fllor by rotating the tire while you hold the tip close to the tread.

Rearwheel drive Toe IN. Frontwheel drive Toe OUT.



Theory:

Rearwheel drive, when you take off the friction from the pavement will cause the front wheel to push a little back & out.

Frontwheel drive, when you take off the front wheels will torque forward & inward.

 

Dile, Senior Don

 

I just did a quick outer tire tread comparison, Back of tire, front of tire....

 

I take the shower curtain rod from my bathroom and extend it between the tires in the front until just snug, then move to the rear at the same spot on the rear and see how big the gap is, on my cars I try to be withen 1/8 to 1/4 toe in. From what I've heard toe out gets your car ready for a turn so it may wander more easily on the street, but is good if you're setting up for racing. My Galaxie was toe out 1" when I got it, it drove straight, but wind would blow it off course really easy, after setting it to 1/4" toe in, wind gusts don't really bother it.

 

I realize the changing of parts ect... I agree.... But it just seems plain odd that, I can drive down the road with no tire noise, make a turn now noise, wheel corrects itself.... and no brake pull, but its clear I have toe out....


I am gonna have to have a buddy come over, and see what we can come up with as far a measuring....

I do have a buddy who has an old wheel alignment machine or what ever it is, mounts to the rim, and its all done that way.

I just don't want to take it to some kid at a tire place that goes off mustang II specs that aren't accurate enlight of the adjustment also being done at the struts....I gotta find an old guy whos "been their done that"

I have read where soe shops will do a toe out to achieve proper suspension load. Eliminating bump steer...

 

Also, I personnally like to jamb the upper ball joints toward the rear of the car, when tightening down the upper control arms to the frame, to add some caster to the MMII lack of caster suspension.

 

It sounds too good to be grossly toed-out. How long have you driven it? Toe being really out will scuff the tires quickly. See what your buddy says after he looks it over.

Bob

 

kinda hard to do with with suspension/body panels/frame in the way... you need to use a toe gauge to be accurate.

 

Radial tires are pretty cool that way.

Don't bother with the stock Mustang II specs.

Go for as close to 0º on you camber and about +2º on your caster, then set the toe in to 1/16" to 1/8" positive.

If it tracks and drives right, you are good to go.

 

OK, Guys. I will agree you can set Toe with a tape measure on an I Beam as described. However this front end is M-11 with coil springs and dropped spindles. Totally different world and not the same parts he started with. Once you jack it up and get the wheels off the ground and set it back down the contact width is closer together than when rolled to that same spot. If you don't roll the car a tire Dia it won't spread out to where it wants to live.

MATACONCEPTS; I want to come to your place and watch you align an A-Frame front end with a Tape measure so I'll be as smart as you. If you don't think I've ever picked up a wrench come follow me around a day.
The Wizzard

 

Should have mentioned I drive down the road after every adjustment and pull into the driveway slowly and stop the car with the e-brake as to make sure the wheels are where they need to be, then I jack up the front to make any adjustments.

 

answering multiple responses....


The old tires drove great for over a year. No tread wear abnormalities....

I then dropped the front end 2 inches... (Dropped spindles)

Put on a SPeedway motors brake kit. GM 11 inch disks.... Says it widens the track about an inch.

Tires look great in the wheel wells, and it stands how I want it to.

I might add, its rack-n-pinion....

Front tires looked toed out so I measured, When I measured the truck was back in the garage, so maybe I should roll it forward and re measure?

I am gonna ask a guy I used to drag race with at his shop.

Fact is; if it didn't look toed out, I would never have neasured or checked it, since it drives so nice.... Puzzling....I fear, after I take it in get it aligned and then it wont drive this nice..... The old SHoulda left it be....LoL but I need it right so...

 

I just talked to a friend I know I raced with. He said, that for toed out is not good for the street but is fine for dirt track racing.....

I am gonna take it to him, if for anything, peace of mind.... Thanks guys...

 

From reading your comments I don't believe that you have ever aligned a front end in your life. You can't arbitrarily "jam" things and expect them to be correct.

The majority of cars I set the toe in on with a tape measure were indeed on a set of plates on a front end machine but I've done a bunch on the shop floor and have never had an issue with it. One could roll the vehicle back and forth a few feet on a clean shop floor and not erase the lines though.

 

Not getting the jam/jamb thing myself....

The tape measure will get the toe roughly in the ballpark prior to hooking up all the gauges, etc. Time IS money on the alignment rack. We did this often when replacing tie rod ends/sleeves.

Bob

 

That's Nothing, When making parts, even suspension arm, & I cant find the measuring tape, cause I put it up from my 3yo from play with it a breaking it, I'll grab a stick, piece of metal, & measure it this long or that long, I dont give a Fuck the two diget number.

True Store: My Tio Johnny has this big ol Hemi four Door truck his son hit a typ little island an JAMBED the lower A-arm off the bushing. I went over with sum crowbars & hammers and JAMBED it back on.

 

See you know how to do it ghetto too. Dont worry I aced geometry and physics.

 

String Alignment

 

Have you tried that? It looks accurate....