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Technical Mustang II Brakes will not stop OK keyboard Mechanics your time to shine

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by hotrodhomework, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,898

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Sure, you just don't push down as hard on the pedal.

    I don't use 1200psi stopping my Falcon. That is maximum pressure. If I got grip at 1200psi, I'd probably break my collarbone with the shoulder belt.
     
  2. Happydaze
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,054

    Happydaze
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The installation instructions on Wilwood Dynalite calipers state to not exceed 1200psi, and they're good for all but the heavyweights.

    Chris
     
  3. Right !!!!!
    Now max 1200 psi is 1200 psi is 1200 psi
    but
    1200 psi caliper force applied to a slippery braking surfaces is not the same stoping performance results as 1200 psi a high friction braking surface.
     
    nunattax likes this.
  4. David Gersic
    Joined: Feb 15, 2015
    Posts: 2,321

    David Gersic
    Member
    from DeKalb, IL

    Yep, once the wheels lock up, it stops mattering how hard the calipers clamp down on the rotors.



    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  5. Halfdozen
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 612

    Halfdozen
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Nope. Some have residual pressure valves behind the brass tapered line seat in the output, some don't.

    This thread would be a lot shorter if every poster read the entire thread before posting. Hotrodhomework is no rookie, he obviously knows his stuff. He's done things in a logical order, knows what to check and how to check it, he's measured line pressures, pushrods, etc. Rather than try more master cylinders or boosters, my next step would be to replace the front calipers. Hit RockAuto for some Raybestus, Delco or other name brand parts. I'm betting that will turn line pressure into clamping pressure.
    I have had first hand experience with Helix parts, and share the opinion that EVERYTHING THEY SELL IS GARBAGE. All the Hoffman Group stuff- Helix, Zirgo, Autoloc, Johnny Law Motors, etc., is poor quality offshore crap. Stories I could tell...
     
  6. Some...not all, it also depends on where the master is mounted, also how the wheel cylinders are built, if the master firewall mounted and the wheel cylinders have cup expanders then no need for residual valves, there’s a reason they went away in oem applications. Trust me, I understand how brakes work as well.


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  7. Halfdozen
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 612

    Halfdozen
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Not dissing you 57 Fargo, just pointing out one more thing to be aware of when mixing and matching (mismatching?) brake system components. 50+ years of hands- on experience here.
     
  8. brigrat
    Joined: Nov 9, 2007
    Posts: 5,338

    brigrat
    Member
    from Wa.St.

    I found the OP very qualified in what he's doing, don't see where anyone thought he was a "rookie". He did ask for advice and opinions and so far he's got 4 pages of it! When you ask for the HAMB's vast knowledge you have to take the good, bad & irrelevant, scramble it all together like a "stew" and pick out all the meat.........................................
     
    Halfdozen and Johnboy34 like this.
  9. Yup all good here


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
    Halfdozen likes this.
  10. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,256

    oj
    Member

    One thing I see, at one post the OP stated he had 650# at the rear, but they are drum brakes and should see about 400#, perhaps he is using a combination valve from an early drum-drum system and it isn't dealing with it proper? Another thing I wonder is if the front bowl circuit is still going to the front brakes? The lines didn't get swapped did they? A 1" MC with disc-drum combination valve should work perfect for that setup.
     
    jazz1 and gimpyshotrods like this.
  11. wandi harry
    Joined: Jul 19, 2008
    Posts: 239

    wandi harry
    Member

  12. BrerHair
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 4,548

    BrerHair
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yea, it's like waiting for the next episode to start streaming . . . who shot John?
     
  13. Sometimes it is easier to assume it's all garbage and start fresh. Scarebird kit .....
     
    bobss396 likes this.
  14. SweetBaby
    Joined: Sep 6, 2019
    Posts: 16

    SweetBaby

    IMG_5156.JPG IMG_5166.JPG i just went thru the exact same problem.....after months of head scratching i spent the money on a hydroboost setup....it works....best i can figure is the engine made 15lbs of vac at the booster, booster wanted 18.....once the hydroboost unit was on, it'll put you thru the windsheild.....all other parts were not changed at the install of the hydroboost
     
    34toddster, wandi harry and Halfdozen like this.
  15. stubbsrodandcustom
    Joined: Dec 28, 2010
    Posts: 1,334

    stubbsrodandcustom
    Member
    from Spring tx

    Got manual hydraulic on my 56... will throw your ass thru the windshield... Wilwood 1" dual master, gm metric calipers up front, 10" drums in rear...

    One thing I never heard the OP say is what kind of proportioning valve he is running nor have I seen much reference to it, He has more than enough pressure at the rear, not enough up front...

    Before throwing money at vac pumps for more vac to run the power booster... Try getting a vac recovery canister off a 70s to 80s car...they will smooth out your vac problem... look like a folgers can...14" is enough for power brakes, ALL vac power boosters do, is help put more force into the master... Its a foot assist...

    What kind of Proportioning valve is in this system?
     
  16. HotrodHR
    Joined: Jul 12, 2010
    Posts: 206

    HotrodHR
    Member

    What are you running in that Morris? Very cool...
     
  17. Really
    B494DB8B-3075-42FE-B02E-0744236E1403.png
     
    stubbsrodandcustom likes this.
  18. stubbsrodandcustom
    Joined: Dec 28, 2010
    Posts: 1,334

    stubbsrodandcustom
    Member
    from Spring tx

  19. This is what I'm thinking. Simpler is best for the application, I use a proportioning block on old cars. You don't need an advanced proportioning valve on a '53 Mercury.
    This is what I like to use, simple to set up and no moving parts inside... that I am aware of.
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/clp-apv-db/
     
    stubbsrodandcustom likes this.
  20. bschwoeble
    Joined: Oct 20, 2008
    Posts: 590

    bschwoeble
    Member

    31Vicky. You have way more patience than I do. I would have given up trying to explain a long time ago.
     
    bobss396 likes this.
  21. hotrodhomework
    Joined: Aug 23, 2006
    Posts: 99

    hotrodhomework
    Member

     
  22. hotrodhomework
    Joined: Aug 23, 2006
    Posts: 99

    hotrodhomework
    Member

    Update the owner installed the “Name brand matched master and booster”. He told me to go drive it and that it had fixed all the problems. I drove it and it still stopped the same. He is not going to admit that the part did not fix it. I am done! He will not listen to good reason on how to fix this and on top of this he thinks a hydro boost system is some kind of black art.There is more to this than just the brakes I have been tip toeing around the owner to get him to listen and teach him but he not going to listen. I am done. To all that responded to this post I thank you for your help.Grateful to have all of the advice good or bad. This is great to have a place to discuss stuff like this.
     
  23. Happydaze
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,054

    Happydaze
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    What, no happy ending? What a disappointment! :)
    Chris
     
  24. Automotive Stud
    Joined: Sep 26, 2004
    Posts: 4,155

    Automotive Stud
    Member

    I think it should have a master cylinder from a disc/drum application and an adjustable proportioning valve.
     
  25. hotrodhomework
    Joined: Aug 23, 2006
    Posts: 99

    hotrodhomework
    Member

     
  26. Hollywood-East
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 1,274

    Hollywood-East
    Member

    Were the pads Ever changed? Because I read the whole thread... It was mentioned a buttload of time's... If those pads are the one's that came from helix... Well there not going to stop it
     
  27. I had a similar problem on my Willys for years. Soft pedal, barely stopped, and had to double pump sometimes to git 'er done. My system is a kludged junkyard mess - I adapted Ford Torino front disk brakes to the stock Willys I-beam (before all the after market stuff was there), Buick 12"x2" finned aluminum rear drums adapted to my Olds rear end, and manual GTX dual master cylinder. I always adjusted the master push rod as advised in all the literature to be just in contact with the piston. Finally got sick of the crappy performance, dimensions of all the parts should be giving me super brakes. I adjusted the push rod several turns into the piston to see what would happen. I figured worst case the brakes would lock up. Result was fantastic brakes. Firm pedal and I can smoke the tires any time I want.
     

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