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muncie 4 speed rebuild

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by mikline127, Mar 22, 2011.

  1. mikline127
    Joined: Mar 14, 2011
    Posts: 20

    mikline127
    Member

    i have a muncie m21 4 speed and i am trying to rebuild it. The problem with it and why i started taking it apart in the first place is the input shaft bearing is missing some of the balls in it. i was just hoping someone had any tricks of the trade to help out. thanks guys.

    Mike
     
  2. 55 gasser pickup
    Joined: Dec 17, 2010
    Posts: 479

    55 gasser pickup
    Member
    from utah

    They rebuilt one on Muscle car tv a few weeks ago try looking that up on u tube.
     
  3. 55 gasser pickup
    Joined: Dec 17, 2010
    Posts: 479

    55 gasser pickup
    Member
    from utah

    it was on spike tv.Im sure its called muscle car.Thats the only one i have seen rebuilt.
     
  4. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 28,831

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If the input shaft bearing is missing balls you replace the bearing, simple as that.
    I don't know anything about it but this might be worth looking into. http://www.5speeds.com/video.html found that on this site. http://www.5speeds.com/muncie2.htm

    Some usable info here http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/muncie-4-speed.cfm

    It's been over 35 years since I had one of those apart and the most important thing when I did that one was a big clean work table or bench where you can lay every piece out in some semblance of order. That and having a dummy shaft for the cluster gear to hold the needle bearings in place.
     
    wvenfield likes this.

  5. mikline127
    Joined: Mar 14, 2011
    Posts: 20

    mikline127
    Member

    Thanks Gasser and 48chev. Found the episode on powerblocktv.com but cant watch it. but it was nice enough to tell me excactly when it aired so i could think back and go yeah if i had just turned the damn tv on i wouldnt be in this situation hahaha. 48chev's link i think is going to be the best bet 25 bucks for a 109 min video on how to take it apart and rebuild it. if i cant get the top clust out then i am going to order that video. thanks again guys.
     
  6. striper
    Joined: Mar 22, 2005
    Posts: 4,498

    striper
    Member

    I bought my rebuild kit from 5 speeds.com and it came with a VHS video. I followed that video and have had no problems with my Muncie. Only gerabox I've ever done.

    Biggest problem, VHS sucks and I had to keep running into the house and back to the shed.
     
    Irish Mike likes this.
  7. Dennis D
    Joined: May 2, 2009
    Posts: 701

    Dennis D
    Member

    IIRC and it has been a while since I have been into one, the balls in that brg were separated with a "cage". This kept them spaced apart. If they are rubbing against each other then I would be looking in the bottom of that tranny for the parts. If there is indeed ball missing they had to go some where and they didn't get past the brg. retainer to fall into the bell housing. A magnet search in the tranny would be a good thing at this point. Dennis D
     
  8. mikline127
    Joined: Mar 14, 2011
    Posts: 20

    mikline127
    Member

    thanks guys for the help. im going to get the rebuild kit from 5 speed. got it all apart and there were like 100 or more little pieces of metal floating around the bottom of the case. checked out all the gears didnt look like it came from any of those. if there was suppose to be a cage holding the balls spaced out it wasnt there. could that be all the peices that i found in the case? really wish i had listened to Mr48chev and the dummy shaft. i have all those neddle bearings all of my work bench. anyways guys ill get some pics up later and see what you guys think. thanks again everyone for the help.
     
  9. Torkwrench
    Joined: Jan 28, 2005
    Posts: 2,506

    Torkwrench
    Member

    Try and find a copy of "Peterson's Basic Clutches And Transmissions". This is one in a series of "How To" books that was published back in the late 60's to late 70's, by Peterson's Publishing, (who also published Hot Rod, Car Craft, Rod & Custom, etc.). The book on transmissions includes a section on Muncies. I found my copy on E-bay, for about $15.00. It is well illustrated and has quite a few tips on rebuilding transmissions. Yeah.....My copy has alot of greasy fingerprints on it, now. :eek::D:eek::D
     
  10. Dennis D
    Joined: May 2, 2009
    Posts: 701

    Dennis D
    Member

    Again, going from old memory. I think there is like four rows of twenty brgs each. You need either a 7/8 or 1" wood dowel to slide in the cluster to hold them in place after you build the cluster with some axle grease to hold the brgs in place along with the spacers. Spacer-brgs-spacer-brgs-spacer-long spacer in the center-spacer-brgs-spacer-brgs-spacer. Thrust washers on each end. When you put the counter shaft in the cluster it will push the dowel out as you go. Piece of cake! I'll bet the metal bits were the remains of the cage. Good luck, Dennis D
     
  11. seventhirteen
    Joined: Sep 21, 2009
    Posts: 721

    seventhirteen
    Member
    from dago, ca

  12. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 48,326

    squirrel
    Member

  13. 30roadster
    Joined: Aug 19, 2003
    Posts: 1,793

    30roadster
    Member

  14. Depending on the ratios of the gears in your M-21 you should be able to do this:
    * support the trans pointing upward, not on the tailshaft, but by way of supporting the housing, put the trans in 3rd gear engaged and remove the four bolts on the input collar/ bearing retainer and pull the input shaft straight up in a smooth motion or in other words work it off easy and without quick jolts. be ginger with this as if the synchro brass brake ring comes out with the input it will be easy to put it back on the 3 tabs in the syncro collar and you don't want to loose any of the rollers and rings that make up the internal bearing between the input and mainshaft.
    *The input shaft and bearing is held into the front snout retainer with a snap ring, compress ring and remove input shaft and press on a new bearing onto the input shaft.
    * Reassemble new bearing with shaft assembly back into the front snout retainer.
    * Using assembly lube or good clean GP grease, reassemble the intermediate roller assembly into hub of mainshaft (the grease will keep the rollers in place so you can intstall the input shaft back into the front hub of the mainshaft and allow the front retainer snout to mate up with the case housing without a gap) I've included a picture I hope helps.
    * Re-install the retainer bolts torque to 30lbs. and lock and load. Good luck.
    I've built more than my share of these things over the years and they are a very simple transmission to work on. If this sounds like I'm speaking French, a decent transmission shop the does standard transmission repairs and overhauls should be able to do this in about 15 minutes and well under $100.00 including parts. That might be a good route if you're not sure. A great source for parts, diagrams, info and repairs is:

    http://www.kajunjon.com/Photo_Gallery.htm


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. mart3406
    Joined: May 31, 2009
    Posts: 3,055

    mart3406
    Member
    from Canada

    Contact this guy - Brian Lawrence. He's on
    the HAMB and is a Muncie expert.

    www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/member.php?u=98053
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Mart3406
    =================================
     
  16. seventhirteen
    Joined: Sep 21, 2009
    Posts: 721

    seventhirteen
    Member
    from dago, ca

  17. mikline127
    Joined: Mar 14, 2011
    Posts: 20

    mikline127
    Member

    Thanks guys. I got everything figured out. I was wrong though on the model its 1970 M-20 after running all the numbers thats what i got. I found acouple good rebuild kits online. Acouple of other questions for people out there. One how much would this muncie be worth rebuilt and 2 how do i figure out what car or cars these transmissions came in? Thanks guys.
     
  18. CutawayAl
    Joined: Aug 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,144

    CutawayAl
    Member
    from MI

    If your input bearing was really bad look for damaged gears, especially the gear on the input shaft and the mating gear on the cluster.

    The nut on the input gear is really tight and most people don't have a wrench or super-deep socket to loosen it.
     
  19. seventhirteen
    Joined: Sep 21, 2009
    Posts: 721

    seventhirteen
    Member
    from dago, ca

    most kits have this nut, so a monkey wrench will work to take it off, just remember it's reverse threaded!
     
  20. spiffy1937
    Joined: Apr 9, 2006
    Posts: 732

    spiffy1937
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Florida

    I know this is an old thread but thought I would add some info. This guy, Paul Cangialosi, has lots of Youtube videos and here is one of them. You will find more on the right side of the page once you get into you tube. You can also click on gearboxvideo just below the video itself and then click on 5speeds.com on the right side and he has parts and 2 great manuals available.
     
    seb fontana likes this.
  21. wvenfield
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 5,242

    wvenfield
    Member

    Youtube is what walked us through a rebuild.
     
  22. The Cangelosi book is the bible. Parts are easy to come by, just shop around. Auto Gear helped me with a new side cover for mine last year.
     
  23. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,924

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Paul Cangialosi in my opion is the man!..His vids are good and he puts a lot of time into helping the public..
     
  24. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 19,952

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    This is great to know..... Just in case I come across another early F-body car to play with.....
     

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