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motor confusion

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 58chevrolet, Apr 12, 2012.

  1. 58chevrolet
    Joined: Feb 28, 2012
    Posts: 114

    58chevrolet
    Member

    I have a 58 Chevy apache that i haven't desided what to use for a motor. I am considering rebuilding a 350 sbc. I also have a tall deck 427 marine bbc that needs rebuilt aswell, but as in my last thread i was thinking about buying a gen V 454 to put in it. what is best for building a fairly punchy street machine???
     
  2. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,535

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    There's no substitute for cubic inches, unless you use forced induction. If it were me, I'd be weighing the cost of rebuilding the 427 vs the cost of the 454.

    Punchy street machine? Have you considered using a Puncho motor, 455 maybe?
     
  3. Jmountainjr
    Joined: Dec 29, 2006
    Posts: 1,365

    Jmountainjr
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Depends on what you want to end up with. The tall deck is really only of value if you are planning on taking the block and stroking it to something like a 496. A stock tall deck 427 truck / marine engine used the big heavy four ring pistons that are a good for a work horse, but not a "punchy street machine".
     
  4. We are starting the build on our new engine going into our '58 Apache SWB and chose a 350 4 bolt. So far we have the new forged rotating assembly with 13cc dished pistons, and the complete new cam assembly (including magnum roller rockers, etc) from Comp cams. We are waiting until we get closer to ready to order the Weiand 142 supercharger. Measurements indicate that it will all still fit under the stock hood. I have a '77 454 under the bench but after much thought we decided we wanted to play with the supercharger. I would be interested in what you finally decide on and your reasons.

    Larry
     

  5. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,326

    squirrel
    Member

    do the 454, put an 8-71 blower on it

    Oh...you have a budget? what is it?
     
  6. vanst603
    Joined: Oct 2, 2011
    Posts: 49

    vanst603
    Member
    from New York

    I'm doing a 58 as well and going with a 348 for the classic thing, sound and raw power. I'd go with a 348, 409 or a 327 with a GM fuelie unit. Now that would be cool!
     
  7. There is no replacement for displacement. 454.
     
  8. Are those the only choices? 350, 427 marine, and gen v 454 also a truck motor.
    Budget? economic drivability later?
    What the does punchy mean to you..
    What the hell is a street machine
     
  9. You must be confused!

    A "motor" is what starts the engine.

    Go for the cubes.
     
  10. 58chevrolet
    Joined: Feb 28, 2012
    Posts: 114

    58chevrolet
    Member

    153 a week. and punchy would be a well built small block chevy thatll easily turn the tires or a bbc that is pretty well built but on a fairly tight budget.
     
  11. EnragedHawk
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 1,083

    EnragedHawk
    Member
    from Waco, TX


    Oh no... you're one of those... :D:rolleyes:
     
  12. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 29,616

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That is how it works. Engine= runs on gas or other fuel. Motor= runs on electricity. Simple isn't it?

    58 Chevrolet the first thing you have to examine is how much you are willing to spend on the engine and then how much you are willing to spend on fuel.

    A fresh 454 with a good cam will probably have as much grunt as you will ever want to use on the street but it won't pass a lot of gas stations if you plan on long distance road trips.

    The tall deck marine block is it's own can of worms. First you have to find out where it was used as if it came from either coast or the gulf it could have had salt water run through it if it had a cooling system that used raw water. Then you get into the 4 ring pistons and tall deck where regular big block parts don't fit. That especially includes intakes.

    Small block, you can go online and find several sources for name brand rotating assemblies to build a 383 out of it for a reasonable price. That along with a set of good heads and a good intake makes for a runner that will not only kick a few butts stop light to stop light but actually get out on the road and do miles without totally killing the bank account.

    My 48 is getting a 292 but my daily driver 71 GMC is getting a 500 Cad later this year because I want to be able to kick a few butts, pull the sailboat over the pass without slowing down and pass more gas stations than I do now.
     
  13. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,326

    squirrel
    Member

    The truck 454 engines are pretty easy to get some power out of cheap...just need a mild cam and headers and they wake right up. A stock intake with a Quadrajet will work fine.

    You'd have to spend some money to make a small block put out that much power.

    But you'll also have to buy gas for the big block, as mentioned. I've been getting a steady 11 with the mild 454 in my 57 one ton truck, granny 4 speed, 3.73 gears and tall tires.
     
  14. Quote: Originally Postedby EnragedHawk Oh no... you're one of those...

    That is how it works. Engine= runs on gas or other fuel. Motor= runs on electricity. Simple isn'tit?


    If its so simple, please explain the following in 2 sentences or less.
    Motorcycle, General Motors, motor oil and every company that has motor oil in the name, Motor Trend Magazine, Ford Motor Company, and for some reason once a blower is bolted on an engine it mysteriously becomes a "blower motor, or blown motor" and a "blown engine" is one that has parts fail at a catastrophic level NA or not.

    Simple isn't it, 2 sentences might be too much.
     
  15. 58chevrolet
    Joined: Feb 28, 2012
    Posts: 114

    58chevrolet
    Member

    Squirrel how mild is it?? and how well will the sm420 4speed hold up behind a built big block? And will a 10 bolt Camaro rearend hold out or should i put a ford 9 in under it??
     
  16. Hummm....

    Does that mean that a "Hybrid" has a Gasoline motor and an Electric engine?????
     
  17. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,326

    squirrel
    Member

    The 454 in my one ton is pretty darn mild, it needs more cam and better exhaust. I don't know how long the transmission will last, but it should be ok as long as I don't try shifting it fast. For a typical street driven "hot rod" truck, you should get a different trans...this one is set up as a work truck.

    It's a tough decision, you have to figure out what your priorities are. None of us can figure that out for you.
     
  18. Is your truck, going to do truck things also? Then is be looking at low end power. And lots if it should make it "punchy" if I understand punchy.
    Those gen v 454 s are less than 250 HP but 385 lbs of torque. That should burn your tires clean off.

    These guys claim they got 700 HP for 2500 on a junk yard 454. Nitrous included.
    http://www.superchevy.com/technical...54_big_block_budget_engine_build/viewall.html

    On another note : the API does a great job collecting "motor fuel tax"
    http://www.api.org/Oil-and-Natural-Gas-Overview/Industry-Economics/Fuel-Taxes.aspx
     
  19. Vandy
    Joined: Nov 15, 2009
    Posts: 368

    Vandy
    Member
    from L.A. Ca

    After much thought, If it was mine I would put a 460 Ford in it.
     
  20. 58chevrolet
    Joined: Feb 28, 2012
    Posts: 114

    58chevrolet
    Member

    i am a high school kid so i'm kinda new to this and this is my first big block but how a Lunati voodoo 60203 cam with a summit dual plane intake and a 750 4160 vacuum secondary carb on that gen V 454 w/ the stock heads run??
     
  21. I'd be careful running that much lift with the stock heads, might want to go for longer duration but lower lift. Plus I'd give it a bit more carb; the general rule of thumb (or so I've heard) is to take your displacement and multiply it by 2, so you might be better off with a bigger carb.

    If you're interested in how different combinations will work, check out www.camquest.com it helps you pick a cam based on your requirements (COMP only, but you can probably find something similar from other brands) and then lets you model your results. Not sure how well it corresponds to real life, but it's pretty cool nonetheless.

    Regardless of what you do to it, you'll have a stump puller for sure.

    Of course I'm not very experienced either so take that with a grain (or 5) of salt.
     
  22. What a horrible fate for a 460! :D
     
  23. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 49,326

    squirrel
    Member

    That cam would probably run ok....make sure about what valve springs it needs, etc.

    I'd suggest a bit less lift if you want a flat tappet cam to last a while. They seem to have a tendency to wear out kind of fast with over .500" lift. But that's just my experience. Also with the stock heads you might want a bit less duration, look for around 5000 rpm max.

    A 750 cfm carb would work fine but probably won't give maximum performance if you're going racing....I would run a 3310 or a Qjet because I'm cheap, but if I wanted to go really fast I'd move up to an 850 and also do a bunch of other things. How much $$$ do you have?
     
  24. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,278

    sunbeam
    Member

    If iI was in high school in small town Nebraska I'd want somthing that got better than 10 mpg.
     
  25. 58chevrolet
    Joined: Feb 28, 2012
    Posts: 114

    58chevrolet
    Member

    well i have the 4160 can i rejet it out to an 850?
     
  26. No, you can not change the CFM of a carb with jets.
     
  27. 58chevrolet
    Joined: Feb 28, 2012
    Posts: 114

    58chevrolet
    Member

    i still have my monte carlo it makes about 16 mpg with the 383 stroker in it
     
  28. 58chevrolet
    Joined: Feb 28, 2012
    Posts: 114

    58chevrolet
    Member

    what all do u have to change then??
     
  29. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,278

    sunbeam
    Member

    The carb
     

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