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Hot Rods Morris Minor Gasser build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by southcross2631, Oct 22, 2016.

  1. Quain Stott
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 1,793

    Quain Stott
    Member

    Never use a flat tappet if a roller is an option. Just the fact of all the crazy thing you have to do to break it in turns me off. Have to start a brand new engine and have it rev 3,000 for 5 minutes or what ever the procedure is. Roller for sure makes more power.
    And the roller is era correct even back to the early 60's and maybe before.
     
  2. sonic03bluegt
    Joined: Dec 5, 2012
    Posts: 412

    sonic03bluegt
    Member
    from sc

    Im going to have to side with Quain on this one, roller would be the only way i would go. Hopefully Jimmy will chime in, but i dont see any way possible that the rollers wouldnt be leagues better
     
  3. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 2,386

    southcross2631
    Member

    Only going by what the Ford engine builder who has competed in the engine masters competition.
    He says that by using an EDM big bore lifter and a nascar style cam lobe there is only 1 % percent horsepower difference between that design and a roller cam ? Yes, the initial break in is more work.
    Assembling the heads with the outer spring only and breaking in the cam by running it for a length of time at above 2500 rpm's. Then installing the inner spring. His theory is lighter spring pressure and lighter over all valve train equals less long term valvetrain maintenance.
    I am looking at both options . There is not much difference in the cost of the heads from Kaase with roller setup or flat tappet set up.
    I would like to hear from Jimmy about his opinion on this. My first big block Ford build so I am seeking all the information I can gather.
    If it was a big block Chevy there would be no doubt about which way I would be going. As I have raced and built lots of those. I would be building a 439 inch motor with a crower stack injection unit like I used to run. It ran 5.80's in a 2900 lb. Nova when I ran with another nostalgic group.
    This time though I want to stick with the blue oval and not run a bowtie.
     
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  4. Quain Stott
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 1,793

    Quain Stott
    Member

    Be sure to tell Kaase your building for the Southeast gassers, he's a big fan. He spent several hours with us helping on the rules over the winter.
     
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  5. enloe
    Joined: May 10, 2006
    Posts: 7,259

    enloe
    Member
    from east , tn.

    What did you do with all of those old "Castoff" Bowtie parts I could haul them off:)
     
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  6. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 2,386

    southcross2631
    Member

    Quain, I will do that. I need to call up there anyway. I am sure he have some insight on the best approach to this project.
     
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  7. 1934coupe
    Joined: Feb 22, 2007
    Posts: 2,959

    1934coupe
    Member

    I know not a Morris but a tiny car done up. This Fiat 500 was at Syracuse this year parked next to my car.

    Pat
     

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  8. enloe
    Joined: May 10, 2006
    Posts: 7,259

    enloe
    Member
    from east , tn.

    YIKES!!!!!!!!
     
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  9. So I wonder how bad it is if they blow a rear at speed?

    Sent from my HTC One A9 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  10. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 2,386

    southcross2631
    Member

    All short wheelbase over powered cars are their own animal. Depends on who builds them, some are undriveable . Some are just a little scary. All require a light touch . You can't horse them like a longer wheelbase car. They get out of shape quicker than longer cars and you learn to lift quicker and live to race another day.
    Blow a rear what ? Tire or differential or tail light bulb ?
     
  11. GeeRam
    Joined: Jun 9, 2007
    Posts: 260

    GeeRam
    Member

    :D

    And that's before you even mention the hideous lever arm suspension.....

    It seems a ludicrous idea that they were used as Police cars in the UK back in the 1960's and even into the early 1970's, but they were....o_O

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. sonic03bluegt
    Joined: Dec 5, 2012
    Posts: 412

    sonic03bluegt
    Member
    from sc

    I spoke with Jimmy about this the other night, he was in agreement with Quain and I that the roller setup would have to be the better way to go. I'm not one to argue with John Kaase though, so I assume either way is going to be fine, but the solid roller seems worlds better to me as far as reliability goes
     
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  13. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 2,386

    southcross2631
    Member

    Waiting on an answer from Kaase now. I sent him an email yesterday and will go with his recommendation . He probably knows more about 385 Fords than just about anybody.
     
  14. Fiddle Picker
    Joined: Dec 15, 2016
    Posts: 363

    Fiddle Picker
    Member

    Hey Mike, I stopped getting notifications about this thread. Thought I would check in.Wow, missed a lot. Nice to know about the minimum in D Gas changing next year. Watching to see which way you go.
     
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  15. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 2,386

    southcross2631
    Member

    I am going to sell off my small block parts and build the 429 . The minimum weight reduction would not help me without spending a bunch of money on a smaller motor. I would still have to buy an aftermarket block and all new rotating assembly to turn the rpm's needed to be competitive . Plus new heads. Went through the 9 plus thousand plus rpm's hassle before with a small block Ford block when I ran E/Gas with a 289 back in the 60''s and it was a Holman and Moody prepped small block from their Trans Am program before they went Boss 302.
    In the long run the 429 will be less maintenance . I will just take my lumps in A/Gas. Like the man said" if you are going to be a bear. Be a Grizzly bear."
    I could go Chevrolet and build a 287 like the boys used to run in Modified eliminator.
     
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  16. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 2,386

    southcross2631
    Member

    I have decided to join the small motor high rpm way of racing. I bought a 1965 289 block and crank today. It was just rebuilt and the cam was wiped out breaking it in so they replaced the motor.
    It was bored .030 and the crank is freshly turned. Will have the crank checked for cracks and polish it after I chamfer the oil holes. It will be 293 cubes. Can you say 9,000 rpm shifts ?
    A set of Dart iron Eagle heads will get me a 50 lb weight break and a stack injection unit will get me another 200 lbs. so I can be at 2680 with me in the car which means very little ballast will be needed.
    Still working on the 429 as I think that would be a killer combo in the 65 Comet I have stashed away.
     
  17. Fiddle Picker
    Joined: Dec 15, 2016
    Posts: 363

    Fiddle Picker
    Member

    Great plan !! See you at the first race of the new season !! Or Shady Side this year as we spectate ! Don't know about you, but I'm ready to participate.
     
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  18. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 8,441

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Well that was a flip of the switch.
    There is just something about RPM. :D
     
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  19. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 2,386

    southcross2631
    Member

    Had a packaging issue with the 429. Too much shit in too little a of a bag. Getting the motor far enough forward and installing a radiator was nearly impossible. I always build my cars to be worked on and that was not going to be the case with the big block after test fitting.
    So better to go the other route than to build frustration into the car.
    You are right about the appeal of a high winding small block.
     
  20. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 13,014

    loudbang
    Member

    More RPM equals more POWER STROKES. :)
     
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  21. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 2,386

    southcross2631
    Member

    Went to the machine shop yesterday and tore down the 289. It was what the guy said it was.
    It is going in the dip tank today . Then to my shop for the oil passage grinding and deburring before it goes back for another bath and see if the bores can just be honed because this motor only ran long enough to wipe out the cam. About an hour.
    Hopefully just a hone so it can stay .030 over and give me one more bore job.
    finding a 289 that is not already .060 over is tough. Looked at 4or5 of them in the past week.
    One guy just said put 8 sleeves in and start fresh and still wanted 500 bucks for the block. By the time I did that I could be on my way to a Dart block.
    It was a 289-225 horse motor so if any restoration guys out there need a set of heads or 4 barrel intake for a 65 289. I can help you out.
     
  22. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 2,386

    southcross2631
    Member

    Working on my rear bars. Got my upper bars made, making the upper bar front mounts. Just need to put my front weld in bungs for the heim joints and get it up under the car. for a test fit to see where my frame mounts are going to be located. Should be right at the end of the tailshaft of the transmission. 20171016_140910.jpg
     
  23. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 2,386

    southcross2631
    Member

    Got the bars finished this morning. Fiddle Picker sent me some secret trick rear springs to try. Thank you very much. So now I can continue on getting the rear end in the car and make this thing a roller. 20171018_111207.jpg
     
  24. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 2,386

    southcross2631
    Member

    Got a call from the machine shop today. My 289 Block won't clean up at .040 and the machine shop guy is afraid that the block is too thin to go .060 . So it was only 2 holes so he is going to sleeve those 2 and save the block. It is never easy when you are poor and messing with 50 plus year old parts.
    Sonic check shows thin area. So we will sleeve the block and pour in some Hard Block and move forward.
     
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  25. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 8,441

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    That bad news from the machine shop is never fun.
    Got one of those to.
    So it sounds like sleeves and .060 over now?
     
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  26. WillyB
    Joined: Aug 7, 2016
    Posts: 114

    WillyB
    Member

    So you'll end up with a .040 engine?
    Wonder what the dozen 289s I saved from the crusher
    when iron hit $400/ton are worth? Only one has ever had
    the heads off and it was the only 4 barrel...
     
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  27. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 2,386

    southcross2631
    Member

    I paid 200 bucks for the block and crank. Was supposed to be a fresh build with a recent bore job. Now it going to have to be sleeved on 2 cylinders. Thankfully the machine shop guy that sold me the block is going to stand behind it and credit me some of the money for the machine work. 6 bolt 289 blocks are getting hard to find. Good thing you can put a 289 crank in a 302 block. I have several cranks.
    I may end up with a 331 in the future and that will be an aftermarket block to start with.
     
  28. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 2,386

    southcross2631
    Member

    Went to the machine shop today and only going to need one sleeve. The cylinder looks good from the back side looking through the water jacket, but it has a dark brown spot about the size of a quarter that will not clean up. So we are going to sleeve that cylinder and pour the block.
     
  29. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 8,441

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    So will they bore the cylinders next to the sleeved hole?
     
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  30. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 2,386

    southcross2631
    Member

    They already have. Just needing the final hone. the spot just will not clean up. The block was .030 and we took it to .040 and just need to put a fine finish on the bores for the moly rings and get enough clearance for the forged pistons.
    I thought about putting 8 sleeves in it . That was an old trick used in the Cleveland blocks when they used them in pro stock. Bob Glidden said it made the block stronger.
     

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