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More ? on Lathes

Discussion in 'The Antiquated' started by mr.chevrolet, Jul 2, 2018.

  1. mr.chevrolet
    Joined: Jul 19, 2006
    Posts: 7,015

    mr.chevrolet
    Member

    after reading the thread about Logan Lathes, I found this. there is an upcoming auction that has these two machines. I am COMPLETLY in the dark about metal lathes but would like to learn. Remember, i'm 69 and I ain't getting a job in a machine shop. so i'm asking the HAMB, too much for a beginner? value? there is tooling also but will be sold separate from the machines. please give your opinions, smartass remarks are welcome too.
     

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  2. sliceddeuce
    Joined: Aug 15, 2017
    Posts: 2,982

    sliceddeuce
    Member

    Check the voltage requirements first.
     
  3. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,591

    mcmopar
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Strum, wi

    If you have 220 volts, then 3 phase is not a problem. I have a converter for my mill and it is the size of a Kleenex box, and cost about $200. Its been installed for 4 years with no problem.
    Tony
     
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  4. 42merc
    Joined: Dec 19, 2010
    Posts: 740

    42merc
    Member

    At most auctions the larger lathes are usually bought by scrappers for their scrap value.
    The hobby guys don't know how to move them & are afraid of the 3 phase power required.
    An 'ADD A PHASE' voltage converter is less than a $100 & allows single phase power to run these old industrial machines.
     
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  5. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,353

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you can determine which one has the least amount of wear on the ways, that is the one to get.
     
  6. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 47,460

    squirrel
    Member

    If they're cheap, buy them both :)
     
  7. Either one would be good, if complete.

    Green one shows a 3 jaw, 4 jaw, and faceplate.
    All very useful.

    See what the other one has included.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
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  8. ^^^ 2 X. A better tool holder on the green, South Bend also. I say it is indexable, so you could put more than one cutting tool in it and spin around for a different operation.
     
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  9. Id buy either one in a heartbeat, I sorly miss my old 7hp 16x40 Hendy 3ph .........using a Smitty now that can only cut .030 at a time.......ugg slow...........like Squirell says buy em both
     
  10. gatz
    Joined: Jun 2, 2011
    Posts: 1,531

    gatz
    Member

    NOT too much for a beginner....in fact, just about right.
    Like others have said, for the right money, both would be great.
    $500 to 1000 each wouldn't be out of line

    By buying both, the tooling may not be so much; there's a chance there may not be another bidder.

    Check the starting amps draw before spending money on a solid-state converter.
    You may have to go to a rotary converter... = more $$, but not insurmountable.
     
  11. mr.chevrolet
    Joined: Jul 19, 2006
    Posts: 7,015

    mr.chevrolet
    Member

    i'll check the phase, I do have 3-phase right outside my garage. there does not appear to be much tooling. and the uprite machine is there too.
     

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  12. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 5,373

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I got a smokin' hot deal on a floor model drill press (free). The only problem; it was 3 phase. I have 220 power in the shop, but not 3 phase. I ended up buying a solid state phase converter. It works well, and even adds some features (soft start and soft stop; it says I should be able to use it to reverse the rotation, but I can't make that work). The problem with it is that it loses a lot of power in the conversion process, at least one third. It's the nature of the beast; from what I understand, running 3 phase equipment on single phase does that. If you go a little slower and are careful, you still end up with a good usable tool that does most everything. It's just something to be aware of.

    One last comment. I needed a lathe for some smaller projects. I looked at the used market, and ended up purchasing a new imported mini-lathe. It was significantly less than $1000 and does everything I need. It has a 7" swing and can accommodate material up to 14" long, which is plenty big enough for me. The best thing about it is that it doesn't take up nearly as much room as a standard lathe. I built a table using a standard solid core door and have my bandsaw, disk/belt sander, and this lathe on it. There is enough extra room for the stuff I'm working on as well. Sure, it was made in China, but it is new, and for now (at least) I don't have to worry about it being all worn out. There are many brands to chose from, and if you're careful, you can get a pretty good piece of equipment. There are several places on the web that have comparisons and reviews of these units which were very helpful in choosing the best unit. I sure ain't gonna be able to narrow a Ford 9 inch with it, but that was never in the cards anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
  13. cederholm
    Joined: May 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,621

    cederholm
    Member

    What the others said about 3 Phase and one thing worth noting. These things are HEAVY. I just finished restoring a SouthBend 9A, amazing quality and very study parts, but heavy (for a small lathe). Be sure your floor can support it.

    ~ Carl
     
  14. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 47,460

    squirrel
    Member

    on the 3 phase thing, if you get an electronic VFD that's rated for twice the HP of the motor rating, then it seems to work ok.
     
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  15. buffaloracer
    Joined: Aug 22, 2004
    Posts: 801

    buffaloracer
    Member
    from kansas

    I finally have 3 phase in my shop and love it. Beats my old converters all to pieces.
    Didn't try a VFD but sounds like the way to go.
    Pete
     
  16. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 2,568

    goldmountain

    I have a free SouthBend lathe made in Korea that had suffered much abuse at the high school. It kicks into neutral with any kind of load on it. Would like to know how to make it work.
     
  17. gatz
    Joined: Jun 2, 2011
    Posts: 1,531

    gatz
    Member

    neutral ? in the headstock? or in the apron drive?
     
  18. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 4,749

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Pick the best lathe and the score the milling machine. You will have a almost complete machine shop.

    Bones
     
  19. akoutlaw
    Joined: May 13, 2010
    Posts: 839

    akoutlaw
    Member

    The one thing I can say about Logan is that they still offer parts & tooling.
     
  20. There is at least one brazed carbide tool in this box, lower left. Good tool, but you need a special grinding wheel to sharpen. My 2c, if there is a lot with more of these tools than others, pass on it.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. dodgedifferent2
    Joined: Mar 8, 2006
    Posts: 116

    dodgedifferent2
    Member

    Three phase go cheap.

    Go get a 2 horse single phase 220 motor.
    Swap the 3 phase motor out.
    May need a few adapters to hook up the motor.
    Get a old school electrician to help wire up.
    We have an extra electrical box on our lathe to get reverse.

    Yes I work in a machine shop.
    I find the phase convertors take a long time to get things spinning.
    At home I only run single phase power and have a Bridgeport and drill press that the motors have been swapped from 3 phase to single phase.
    Found out the book smart electricians are lost when wiring
     
  22. hotrod428
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 287

    hotrod428
    Member

    My lathe is identical to the first one. I bought the South Bend at an auction 30 years ago. I run it with a $100 phase convertor. The only time I run into trouble is if I try to take too big a cut, it's been a very good $600 investment.
     
  23. metlmunchr
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 753

    metlmunchr
    Member

    Both of those lathes look pretty good. Neither one appears to have had one of those porch paint repaints where there's paint slopped all over evreything. The South Bend has a cam lock spindle which indicates its likely from the late 40s or early 50s at the earliest. That's much better than the older ones that had threaded spindles. The Logan is likely from the 60s. It has an L-00 spindle which is also better than the threaded nose ones.

    Looking at the selectors on the SB's quick change box, it would appear that lathe may have had very little use. Most lathes have tracks below the selector holes where the paint is worn off from sliding the handles into position but that one looks to only have some oil trailing down from the holes. That's normal as there's gears inside that are oil lubed.

    The down side to the SB is that it likely has a lower top speed than the Logan. The Logan has a variable speed drive which is controlled by the round knob with a handle mounted down on the left front of the cabinet.

    Don't worry whether they're single or three phase. If single, hook it up. If three phase, add a VFD for less than $200 and you're good to go with variable speed and reversing built into the VFD.

    What they're showing as tooling might be worth $15 per box but not much more. Typical auction collections of mostly junk sold as "tooling".

    If the auction is well advertised and the lathes are as good as they look, I'd say either one of them will likely bring $1500. Home shop size lathes in decent condition always bring a good price due to high demand.
     
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  24. I would opt for the Logan and grab the Cincinnati mill while you have a rigger standing by. Most auctions have a couple of riggers at them or getting one is easy enough. I'm sort of a spoiled lathe-snob myself. I like them set up a certain way, indexable cutters and a DRO if possible.
     
  25. continentaljohn
    Joined: Jul 24, 2002
    Posts: 4,736

    continentaljohn
    Member

    I like the south bend with the extra chucks and a 4 jaw comes in handy . Plus the face plate is nice for holding odd shapes .
     
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  26. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,347

    Atwater Mike
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Something noteworthy here: My ex boss, Cliff, a practical guy, wanted a 3 phase lathe his neighbor had, but then (1970) it was no use.
    His friend and fellow roundy-round racer (Sportsmen) John Mendoza worked for Pacific Gas and Electric Co., and told Cliff to call the office and ask about getting them to run 3 phase into his home shop.
    They did it for $10, (!) but he had to sign a 'waiver' (promise) not to move for 15 years.
    He owned his house, so no problem. PG&E was evidently assured he'd be USING the electricity they provided. Win/win?
    Call and ask.
     
  27. Marcosmadness
    Joined: Dec 19, 2010
    Posts: 364

    Marcosmadness
    Member
    from California

    I would actually rather have a three phase motor with a VFD. It lets you have a a infinitely variable speed motor. You lose torque when you use the VFD to lower speeds but then you shift the speed controller on the lathe to a slower speed and you get most of the torque back, if that make sense. Slow speeds are very useful for cutting threads. The one lathe seems to have a collet closer which is big plus(to buy a collet closer might cost as much as the used lathe) Of course you need collets to use the collet closer. The advantage to using collets is accuracy and speed. The last collets I bought cost less than $15 each and that was for new collets.
     
  28. metlmunchr
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 753

    metlmunchr
    Member

    The appearance is a bit deceiving, but that's not a collet closer on the left end of the Logan headstock. To engage the back gear, you pull out the red knob and then pull outward on the handwheel that looks like a collet closer. That disengages a set of face teeth on the spindle to allow operation in back gear. The handwheel is fairly large because it takes a pretty decent pull to disengage.

    I have the same lathe although a bit newer than the one in the pic. Mine is late 70s or early 80s, and I have a factory option collet closer for it. The tube inserts thru the spindle hole and thru the center of the handwheel. It has a smaller handwheel as well as a set of radial teeth for use with a spanner wrench. For most work it can be hand tightened via the small handwheel but if the cut is tougher or the stock is slippery then it has to be finally tightened with the spanner. Functional, but not nearly as quick and easy as a lever type closer as is typical on a Hardinge. The closer also comes with a reducing sleeve to adapt the work end of the spindle to take 5C collets.

    Re three phase motors... A 3 phase motor also runs smoother than a single phase assuming its running on true 3 phase from a utility or from a VFD. All single phase motors have a cogging action as they turn. Its not perceptible for most uses, but in a lathe or surface grinder the cogging can show up as affecting the finish on the work.
     
  29. mr.chevrolet
    Joined: Jul 19, 2006
    Posts: 7,015

    mr.chevrolet
    Member

    i'll keep everyone posted on the sale. I doubt there will be any riggers on the site day of the sale. this is a farm auction. owner was an engineer/farmer. maybe i'd be better off starting with this small one, also going to be sold. fi179[1].jpg
     
  30. That looks like a jewelers lathe. Less than 10" and maybe 1" depth so not a whole lot of torque for heavy cuts either. They were used by watchmakers for making gears and the different parts inside of wind up watches.
     

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