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Mopar Polyhead. Drop In? Swap?????

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 53dodgekustom, Aug 28, 2007.

  1. 53dodgekustom
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 879

    53dodgekustom
    Member

    Ok, so after burning six quarts of oil, not starting 3 times, practically over heating when flooring it going up every long steep hill (there were a bunch of those), having to push it up a steep hill while six other cars are sitting behind me starring at me and ajs88 struggling for or lives(Fucking people these days), developing a leaky frieze plug and not being able to go over 70mph the whole way there and back to the HAMB drags. I am now thinking of doing a engine swap.

    Right now the 53 Dodge Meadowbrook has the 230 Flathead six with the standard 3spd trans column shift (no fluid drive) and a 3.54 gear rear end out of a 53 241 HEMI car. Stock master cylinder and clutch mount.

    I realize that I have several engine/tranny choices that I could do but I want to change as little as possible with the car.

    Everything would have to be Mopar there will be no SBC for 4 me.
    And it has to be a stick.

    As HEMI's are getting more expensive and harder to find by the minute I am serously thinking of the poor forgotten poly. I really don't want to put in an LA (273,318,340,360) because my dad has one in his car (I don't wanna copy.) and I think it lacks the traditional "feel".

    Sooo, Can I use the trans thats in the car?

    What about motor mounts? My car is made to fit the HEMI so they use the same mounts right?

    Are later polys different than early ones? Like 270 Vs 350. Or how about a Dodge poly vs a Chrysler poly. Were does the wide block 318 fit in to all of this?

    My dad had a 270 poly in a 55 dodge with the standard 3spd on the column, Is it the same trans as mine? I think 55 had swinging pedals?

    I want this to be as easy as possible. and as free as possible. (I'm 19 with a part time job. college is expensive.)

    Help me out!

    I know that there is a few poly freaks on the HAMB.

    Thanks.
     
  2. 53dodgekustom
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 879

    53dodgekustom
    Member

  3. 302GMC
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 6,268

    302GMC
    Member
    from Idaho

    Same bellhousing to trans bolt pattern used from '51-'56, so any pre-56 MoPar engine with a standard bellhousing will fit your trans ... a big Chrysler Spitfire 6 or DeSoto 6 would be the easiest swap.
     
  4. The 318 is the older sibling of the 273/318/340/360 you don't wanna use. The bellhousing pattern for those is the same.

    There was another good poly thread over the weekend. Try to search and see if you can find it.

    Good luck!

    Jay
     

  5. 53dodgekustom
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 879

    53dodgekustom
    Member

    What about the input shaft? I don't want a big six. They don't like to rev past 3500 much either.
     
  6. Nick32vic
    Joined: Jul 17, 2003
    Posts: 3,022

    Nick32vic
    Member

    its about time! haha. sorry about those hills........
     
  7. Mel
    Joined: Sep 8, 2002
    Posts: 544

    Mel
    Member


    Personally, I would use an early "A" poly. Any of these with a standard bellhousing should fit your current transmission. I haven't a clue as for your motor mounts though, but I have a good bet they'll be very close.

    The poly was introduced in '55. There were 2 versions, 1 based on the HEMI (241, 259, 270, 301, 315, 325, 331, 354). You can convert these to a HEMI by subbing heads, pistions, rocker arms, intake & exhaust manifolds, pushrods, and head bolts. Chrysler parts for Chrysler polys, Dodge parts for all others. The other version was the A poly (277, 301, 303, 313, 318, 326) and built through '67.

    LA polys were introduced in '64 with the 273. This is where the 318 LA was being produced at the same time as the 318 A (wide block). After '67 the 318 and other small blocks became LA series.

    The 318 LA and A share little in common. You can interchange crank bearings, timing chains & sprokets, distributor, water pumps (diff is location of inlets) and a few other small parts.

    As for Chrysler vs Dodge polys? Personally I think it's all about the same. There's very little in the way of speed equipment available for any poly. Unless you plan to convert one into a HEMI someday, I'd go just get something that you can turn over. Rebuilding a poly top to bottom can get a little pricey unless you've got time to search for parts. Rebuild kits generally go between $700- 1500 for a complete kit. Grated cheaper than a HEMI, but it's no SBC either. And you won't find generally find parts just sitting on the shelves.

    At any rate, it is a good strong motor. Can't complain about my '59 326. Once I got it rebuilt, there's been very little to maintain other than regular oil changes and the occasional tappet adjustment.

    Good luck with yours.
     
  8. 53dodgekustom
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 879

    53dodgekustom
    Member

    Thanks MEL. I have the ability to make my own motormounts and I know were to find a 53 HEMI car to see what the motor mounts look like so this should be very easy.

    Mel are you saying that the early "HEMI" based poly (241, 259, 270, 301, 315, 325, 331, 354) and the "A" poly (277, 301, 303, 313, 318, 326) will bolt up to my trans using a standard bell housing?

    That would really make finding an engine easier.

    Nick, I am not really sure why my car started acting up like it did because it never did that shit before. Thanks for all the help though.
     
  9. draggin ass
    Joined: Jun 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,920

    draggin ass
    BANNED
    from hell

    hey dude i see you are in IL. i can get you a "super red ram" hemi for a decent price. let me know. you got a pickup truck? lets make it happen. this motor was never in a car it was used for powering farm shit.
     
  10. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,287

    George
    Member

    On the early Polys the intakes interchange with in a series Chr Poly with Hemi, Dodge, DeSoto, & Plymouth interchange with Dodge Hemi intakes but there are high & low deck intakes.
     
  11. 53dodgekustom
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 879

    53dodgekustom
    Member

    Draggin ass, I don't trust you at all because of your history on here. You "forget" to many things. STOP RIPPING PEOPLE OFF!
     
  12. 53dodgekustom
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 879

    53dodgekustom
    Member

    Thanks for the info. so far guys.
     
  13. I pulled a 318 poly out of my wifes car (1964 Plymouth Fury) two years ago. It ran alright. It's been sitting outside the whole time. That said, if you want it you can have it.
     
  14. Mel
    Joined: Sep 8, 2002
    Posts: 544

    Mel
    Member

    Yes, any of those should bolt right up with the standard bellhousing.
     
  15. Mercmad
    Joined: Mar 21, 2007
    Posts: 1,383

    Mercmad
    BANNED
    from Brisvegas

    There are3 ( possibly 4 ) different types of poly.All are great performers.
    The best one to play with is the LA from any Plymouth or Dodge from 1961.
    Before that the polys were almost similar ,but the 301 poly from Canada and exported to Australia( chrysler royals) and England ( Bristol 401 etc ) is smaller and nothing interchanges.
    The 325 Dodge poly is a Dodge only engine and was the cheaper option for V8 powered cars,It's the same short block as the Dodge Hemi.
    The mid 50's Chrysler Windsor poly is the same as 331-354 Hemi short block but only 301 cu.in.
    The Plymouth Fury Poly of 1955-56 was yet another different engine which also doesn't interchange with anything.

    Perfomance gear for the 318 LA poly is restricted to the Weiand four barrel ,but just this one bolt on is enough to make a sleepy poly wake and scream!'
    Solid lifter cams work well from stock but I understand there are various different grinds available.
    I have used an A block pointless electronic dizzy with orange box on a 318,and from memory it bolted straight in .I didn't even change the advance etc .
     
  16. 53dodgekustom
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 879

    53dodgekustom
    Member

    Ok, so what makes the "A" poly better than the "HEMI" poly or vise versa?

    I know that speed parts are pretty non exsistant, but which one is easer to find a 4-bl intake for it?
     
  17. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,287

    George
    Member

    The Hemi Poly & the A Poly are close enough that a 318 build is featured in Tex Smith's Hemi Book. The intakes interchange between Poly & Hemi on the Hemi based Polys. If you find a 331-354 Poly any intake for the 331-354-392 will fit, 4V, 2X4, 4X2, 3X2, 2X2, single log, twin log, ect, many choices! Also the cam is the same on the Hemi based engines so plenty of choices if you have a Chr. Poly, not so many if Dodge based.
     
  18. rjgideon
    Joined: Sep 12, 2005
    Posts: 531

    rjgideon
    Member

    To take this post in a different direction, there is a /6 and OD A-833 4 speed on ebay right now for $50. The 4-speed is from a truck and has overdrive for the 4th gear. That combo is over by Souix City, IA. There are lots of these engines from trucks that can be had pretty cheap. For an economical selection, get an LA 318 and 4 speed from a truck and throw it into your car with some PlyDo motor mounts.
     
  19. panic
    Joined: Jan 3, 2004
    Posts: 1,450

    panic

    The best one to play with is the LA from any Plymouth or Dodge from 1961.
    The LA is not a poly motor, and began in 1964.

    Before that the polys were almost similar ,but the 301 poly from Canada and exported to Australia( chrysler royals) and England ( Bristol 401 etc ) is smaller and nothing interchanges.
    All poly A engines 1956-67 are almost completely interchangable, one deck height, all head casting interchange, all pumps, distributors, rods, cranks.

    The 325 Dodge poly is a Dodge only engine
    Also low-line 1957-58 DeSoto.

    The Plymouth Fury Poly of 1955-56 was yet another different engine which also doesn't interchange with anything.
    It's the Dodge 241/259/270 engine, low-deck version of the 315/325, they used in Plymouth before the poly A.
     
  20. panic
    Joined: Jan 3, 2004
    Posts: 1,450

    panic

    The intakes interchange between Poly & Hemi on the Hemi based Polys.
    Only the Dodge.

    If you find a 331-354 Poly any intake for the 331-354-392 will fit, 4V, 2X4, 4X2, 3X2, 2X2, single log, twin log, ect, many choices!
    All too big, ports wrong shape, flange angle is different.

    Also the cam is the same on the Hemi based engines so plenty of choices if you have a Chr. Poly,
    The cams interchange in the same nose drive type (1955-58) but not between deck heights, so a 392 cam won't work in a 301/331/354, 315/325 cam won't work in a 241/259/270 and vice versa.
     
  21. KenC
    Joined: Sep 14, 2006
    Posts: 475

    KenC
    Member

    I can't find this one, got an auction number????

     
  22. 53dodgekustom
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 879

    53dodgekustom
    Member

    A /6 would be cool but I had one of those already. I have had 4 vehicles and never had a V-8!

    Panic, thanks for clarifying things, the guy kind of gave it away with the LA "POLY" starting in 61.

    Thanks all.

    Anyone have a cheap running "HEMI" Poly?
     
  23. 53dodgekustom
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 879

    53dodgekustom
    Member

    Alright, It looks like I will be setting my sights on a Early Ply/Dodge "Hemi" poly Low or high deck. So, what cars came with these, 55-56 or 57? What about serial numbers? (Were are they and what do they tell you.) What sizes come with what years?
     
  24. 53dodgekustom
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 879

    53dodgekustom
    Member

    Alright just read on Google that the 318 "A" was produced from 57-66 so the one I am looking for is 55-56. Right?
     
  25. George
    Joined: Jan 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,287

    George
    Member

    Chr "Hemi" Polys '55 301, '56 331, 56-7 354. Came in Windsors & Saratoga. Dodge hemi Polys Low deck '55-56 270, High deck 56-7 315,'57-8 325, Plymouth Hemi Polys (Dodge blocks) Low deck '55 241, 259 High block '56 270, The '57 325 DeSoto hemi Poly is also a Dodge. The Desoto 325 came in the '57 Firesweep, the Dodges in Coronet, Royal. There was no factory Hemi version of the Chr 301 or Plym 259 (there are reports of factory 259 Dodge Hemis in trucks). The Chr 301 shouldn't be confused with the '57 Plym "A" 301.
     
  26. 53dodgekustom
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 879

    53dodgekustom
    Member

    Thanks.

    I was just doing some more research and found out that the plymouth 350 was a B engine. I thought it was a Poly in my first post.

    Looking on E-bay I saw some pics of them to refresh my memory. The valve covers are really webbed and the sparkplugs go in between the web and straight in through the head like a HEMI. HA, no one will ever know what it is. cool. I like the way they look.

    The bigger sizes would be nice to get but good luck finding a manual bell housing with it.

    So, if I get a 55-56 engine I can use my 6-cyl bellhousing and for the other engines I will have to find a manual bellhousing.

    I am guessing that a 57 and up manual bell housing is different for a "Hemi" poly and a "A" poly. Because i know were there is a truck with a 318 "A" with a 4spd. (The engine is froze.)

    I ramble to much.:D

    But we are all LEARNING!
     
  27. Poly biuld. Take one poly, 318 prefered. Port heads thoughly in the valve pocket area. , match ports. obtain a factory 4 bbl intake , rework for an AFB.
    Send cam out for regrind. A good profile would be a 273 Hi perf solid lifter grind. Any cam grinder can put that on the poly core. The lobes are spaced different but they know how to do that. Now someone is going to tell you you cant regrind cams or they wont last or they have to be welded first all of which is utter nonsense so pay no attention.
    Heads can be planed substantially as they are very thick but for prudence sake say you start at .040" That is assuming you are using a stock steel head gasket. if you switch to composition they are thicker so you will need to remove an additional 020" to maintain the compression. A 340 windage tray is a blolt in with a mopar windage tray hardware kit for a small block LA engine although we rework the stock main bolts ourselves to mount the windage tray. Carb should be 600 cfm (625 is ok.)
    Distributor curve will need to be quickened to match the cam .
    Engine will produce good hp , last forever and go like stink. For you installation you need one built before 1961 as 1961 was the last year for the flat crank flange. In 1962 it became the stepped one which wouldnt work in your swap. They are an excellant engine. Strokers are also easy to do but not for you drive train which requires the old style crank flange as mentioned before. 1 hp per cube would be within easy reach.
    Don
     
  28. KenC
    Joined: Sep 14, 2006
    Posts: 475

    KenC
    Member

    still lookin' for the eBay auction mentioned in post 18! anybody got an auction number???
     
  29. KenC
    Joined: Sep 14, 2006
    Posts: 475

    KenC
    Member

    Still looking for that mopar 6 + 4spd auction on ebay, mentioned in post 18. anybody ??
     
  30. 53dodgekustom
    Joined: Jun 18, 2006
    Posts: 879

    53dodgekustom
    Member

    Ken c. try to Pm the guy on post 18. I also tried with no luck.
     

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