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Technical Mopar ballast resister wiring questions

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by tattoos by brandon, Sep 2, 2014.

  1. tattoos by brandon
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 540

    tattoos by brandon
    Member
    from salem ohio

    OK I have a 59 Chrysler new yorker that I switched to electronic ignition and they had me get the orange box and ballast resister so I wired it up like the diagram but my question is the one side of the ballast that goes to the coil has the ignition (start) wire ran to it ... I ran it from the start position of my ignition and it want to start while it's running I take it I need to wire it to the starter relay that what when the starter is in guage it work because I believe I'm giving the starter power the way I have it ran ... and the other side of the ballast that comes from the orange box has another wire that runs to the ignition on position of the ignition.... i just want to make sure I'm right before i got tearing into this again it's been a little of a nightmare so far and i don't know any mopar guys that can help I'll post pics in a second
    Thanks !

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  2. tattoos by brandon
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 540

    tattoos by brandon
    Member
    from salem ohio

    The ballast will be mounted next to the box once I get it all wired right

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  3. SlmLrd
    Joined: Oct 27, 2007
    Posts: 988

    SlmLrd
    Member
    from DAGO

    Looks right to me.
     
  4. tattoos by brandon
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 540

    tattoos by brandon
    Member
    from salem ohio

    I basically need to find out witch one of the post on the starter relay to run the start side of the ballast wire to ... cuz as soon as i hit on it wants to start

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  5. tattoos by brandon
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 540

    tattoos by brandon
    Member
    from salem ohio

    Can you run both wires from the ignition switch or does the start wire have to be from the relay I guess is my real question lol

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  6. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,614

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    It should be wired to the solenoid so it is only energized when the starter is turning. The idea is to give the coil a full 12 volt jolt for hotter starting, then cut the voltage with a resistor while running, so you don't burn out your coil or points.
     
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  7. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 3,092

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    I do not know MOPAR, but it seems odd to me that electronic ignition would need a ballast resistor.
     
  8. tattoos by brandon
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 540

    tattoos by brandon
    Member
    from salem ohio

    I hate the wiring lol I'm very new also do alot of my questions might be stupid bit better safe than sorry ... I'm switching to a newer starter relay right now because I think mine is bad ...when I turn the key off its trying to start and the main large wire gets hot by the starter and so dose the hot wire to the battery by the hook up

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  9. tattoos by brandon
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 540

    tattoos by brandon
    Member
    from salem ohio

    I believe I fixed everything I need to let the battery charger but I replaced the starter relay with a 70s style and it had a place for a ballast resister to hook up so I ran the wire and removed the one from the start position of the ignition switch and it turned over but to dead of a battery to start so we will know tomorrow if it runs with no problems thanks for all the help

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  10. tattoos by brandon
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 540

    tattoos by brandon
    Member
    from salem ohio

    And I had some help haha

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  11. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,723

    73RR
    Member

    Part of Mopar electronic ignitions since 1970....
     
  12. tattoos by brandon
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 540

    tattoos by brandon
    Member
    from salem ohio

    Yeah I wish I would have done petronics or w.e also if anyone know how hot a ballast resister should actually get that would be a big heal because it's getting very hot to the touch

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  13. 50dodge4x4
    Joined: Aug 7, 2004
    Posts: 3,535

    50dodge4x4
    Member

    The resistor on a Mopar gets HOT! (any resistor that is functioning gets hot.) I'm betting 150-200 degrees wouldn't be out of line. The ecu can get pretty hot too, I've seen them melt the coating out of the back of them and still work.

    You have a single pole resistor. One lead goes to the + side of the coil, the other comes from the Ign I terminal of your ignition switch. A wire from the starter solenoid to the resistor is not required, and its not advisable to add one. The original early production Mopar electronic ignition has a dual resistor (with 4 prongs) and one half of those resistors were for the "start up", the other 1/2 was for "run". That start up side had one wire lead only from the starter solenoid and the other lead connected to the coil. Those old 4 prong resistors had special connectors so that the wires were connected correctly. Back in the day, it was advised to carry an extra 4 prong resistor in your glove box because if your Mopar didn't start, the resistor was probably crapped out. Most of the time, it was the start side of the resistor that failed, Mopar solved that issue by eliminating the start side and just use the run side. By the way, the resistor is there to protect the coil. Most coil failures are from over heating, you don't want to grab a coil off a running car either, or you could get a coil branded hand.

    A motor is a heat pump, nearly everything on it or connected to it, creates, retains, or gives off heat that is too hot to touch. Gene
     
  14. tattoos by brandon
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 540

    tattoos by brandon
    Member
    from salem ohio

    Is there a certain ohms that is should be at because most ppl I have talked to said it will get hot but should not burn but Idk what could be wrong some one said it could be because I have 140 amp alternator but I don't see how that could affect it

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  15. tattoos by brandon
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 540

    tattoos by brandon
    Member
    from salem ohio

    But now as I look online I see more ppl saying it could be ok or I might have the wrong ballast or coil or something could be bad ... I'm currently trying to figure out what the ohms should be and I need to know how to check that ... sorry ppl I'm very new to this and know very little lol

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  16. tattoos by brandon
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 540

    tattoos by brandon
    Member
    from salem ohio

    This came with my coil I was told to use and Idk what ohms ballast they sold me and how to check ...

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  17. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,681

    mcmopar
    Member
    from Strum, wi

    I am running a part from Nathon Nuttal, it is a conversion to hei and fits on any mopar. Then you buy a electronic ignition module from a chevy. I don't want to put anything chevy on my car but it just makes sense to me, the best part is it gets rid of the orange box, the white resister and the regulator. http://www.designed2drive.com/ I do not have my truck running yet, but at Rock falls race way I saw a guy run 12.6 in the qtr with it on his car.
     
  18. mcmopar
    Joined: Nov 12, 2012
    Posts: 1,681

    mcmopar
    Member
    from Strum, wi

    Here is a pic of his set up

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  19. da dodge brother
    Joined: Apr 2, 2010
    Posts: 388

    da dodge brother
    Member
    from wisconsin

    I converted the system in my '55 Dodge using just a mopar electronic distributor and an ECU unit from your friendly parts store. Now I'm running the original 270 Hemi which meant I could use a stock 318 low deck distributor. I do not know if you can do the same. But the conversion was about a one hour set up and have been running it for about 4 years now with no problems. Also I am running the newer "High Torque" starter which has the solenoid built right into the starter. Here is the wiring system I have ... On the ECU plug in there is a 5 wire plug in. Mine had a green wire which was not used. The black wire goes to the negative side of the coil. The blue wire goes to the RUN side of the ballast resistor, which is a standard stock style 2 prong resistor, and the dual prong wire goes to the distributor. From the other side of the resistor the wire goes to the positive side of the coil and also to the start prong on the starter switch. There are no other relays or switches or anything else being used. The key here was that I could use the stock Mopar electronic distributor for the conversion. Check to see if your engine will accept that type of distributor. If it can it's a very simple swap ... Good luck ..
     
  20. 50dodge4x4
    Joined: Aug 7, 2004
    Posts: 3,535

    50dodge4x4
    Member

    Brandon,
    Why are you trying to make this more complicated then it is?
    Let me tell you about my 1'st Mopar point to electronic conversion.
    The car was a 69 Road Runner with a 383 big block. I hijacked an ignition system out of a 73 or 74 Chrysler in a junk yard and installed it in my Road Runner. It involved cutting wires from my car, and splicing in the other stuff. People told me I didn't need a resistor, so I wired it without. The car fired right up and I cruised around for a couple of weeks, then one day it just quit running. I determined the coil was bad (it was on my RR when I bought the car.) I went out and bought an Accel Super Coil (you know, those big yellow coils) and life was good again. A couple months later, I went 500 miles from home to a car show. Just as we got into the show grounds, the car died. The Super Coil was dead. That show had an Accel booth, so I took off my 2 month old coil and went to the booth to have a talk. They promptly handed me a new coil, that was still in the box, but this box also had a resistor. I ask about the resistor, and the answer was "Some cars need the resistor, some don't!" I asked how I was suppose to know if my car needed the resistor or not. Their answer was "I'd put it (the new coil) on without the resistor, and if it fries the coil, it needed the resistor!" which I did. The very next day, upon entering the show, the car died again. I took the coil back to the Accel booth, and they gave me another coil with the instructions to install the resistor this time, which I did. That was the last coil I ever bought for that car. Those "Experts" were only guessing! For the record, I got the same response from the "Experts" at the Mopar booth as well. You are listening to some people that may or may not know what their talking about, which is why your getting conflicting info. There is a difference between "I have heard" and "I have done", listen to the people that "have done" more then 1 time.

    I have installed Chrysler electronic ignition on more then a hundred cars over the years, and have been on site to troubleshoot hundreds more (mechanic at the largest auto repair gas station in our town of 30,000 between 72 and 78, dirt track racing Mopars 15+ years, and worked part time at a race shop when I worked at a factory in maintenance). If you wire it like I told you, which is the same way as Da Dodge Brother above, you shouldn't have any problems. The only thing that varies from what Da Dodge Brother told you is that you needed an electronic ignition distributor from a 440 big block for your 413.
    And I'm still not going to touch a resistor or a coil on a running motor, because I don't like to get burned. If someone tells you they don't get hot, they are feeding you BS. Gene
     
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  21. tattoos by brandon
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 540

    tattoos by brandon
    Member
    from salem ohio

    Lol thanks guy and that is how I had it wired the problem before is I was using the wrong diagram and keep frying stuff and after 3 attempts I got a kit from summit instead of just using w.e auto zone had and that's what I'm running now ...car runs fine just needs tuned and what not but I have a flake engine bay and I'm trying to hide as much stuff as possible would it be very bad to have the resistor and computer mounted under the dash but not covered they will be open to air just up enough away from feet and I just wanted to make sure before I went on to the extent thing or finished it up and something was wrong and no one I know knows mopar lol my dad's a chevy "60s to 80s" guy lol so better safe than sorry

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  22. tattoos by brandon
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 540

    tattoos by brandon
    Member
    from salem ohio

    Also while I got you all here any one know of a place I can get valve covers for my 413 heads ... mine are to beat to get them to stop leaking I would like to keep them a smooth factory look so I can flake them and put the golden lion sticker on them but I can only find the stupid racing aluminum ones that just won't look good with my look

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  23. 50dodge4x4
    Joined: Aug 7, 2004
    Posts: 3,535

    50dodge4x4
    Member

    Brandon,
    I'm not sure I would want the resistor under my dash, but have heard of people doing it. I'd want to be sure there is nothing close to it. I suspect mounting the ecu under the dash would probably be OK, many of the modern cars put the computer in the passenger side kick panel behind a plastic cover. Be sure the ecu case is grounded.

    Any big block Mopar valve cover will fit on your 413, the newer ones will just have bolt holes in the bottom corners your doesn't have. You won't have to be concerned about not having those extra 2 bolts, just be careful not to over torque the other 4. Mopar added the 2 extra bolts to help seal the valve covers. I believe the extra 2 bolts were added around 63 or 64.

    Just a note here, a lot of times the valve covers get really torqued down and tend to split around the bolt holes at the point the cover starts to rise from the bolts. Look at your covers for hairline cracks around the bolt holes, if they are cracked there, they can be welded and ground flat again and will usually seal as well as they did when new. Gene
     
  24. tattoos by brandon
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 540

    tattoos by brandon
    Member
    from salem ohio

    Cool thanks for the advice and I'm gonna see what I can find for covers now knowing that ... my passenger side leaks so bad out of the back corner and I've tried everything ...I didn't notice cracks when I painted them but I'll look again

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  25. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,723

    73RR
    Member

    Just a reminder, as Gene pointed out, GROUND the ecu case. In fact, use as many ground wires as you can, go to the body, the frame and the engine. 90% of the poor/no run conditions and 'bad' ecu issues that I have had to deal with were poor groundings.
    Clean the paint from the back of the ecu case, around the bolt holes, and what ever you mount to.

    .
     
  26. tattoos by brandon
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 540

    tattoos by brandon
    Member
    from salem ohio

    I did that but I didn't run a ground wire but I can do that also just to be safe ... it runs good now was a just scare because of how hot the ballast got

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  27. ago
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,199

    ago
    Member
    from pgh. pa.

    Listen to above advice run a ground wire to same point as battery ground.



    Ago
     
  28. tattoos by brandon
    Joined: Jun 28, 2011
    Posts: 540

    tattoos by brandon
    Member
    from salem ohio

    I can probably run on to the body and to the frame ... the battery is in the trunk and is grounded to pass side body and to the pass side frame so I grounded the engine to the pass side fire wall and from the to the Frame just to make sure

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  29. 50dodge4x4
    Joined: Aug 7, 2004
    Posts: 3,535

    50dodge4x4
    Member

    The problem with grounding through the body or the frame is the likely hood of getting poor connections. Dirt, rust, scale or paint/primer between the frame bare steel, or the body bare steel and the ground terminal make for bad connections, the problem compounds when there is more then one wire terminal making that connection. Most of the time, that connection is screw threads into thin metal. What I do with anything that needs a good ground is run a 10 gauge wire from the battery ground to a mounting bolt on each component. I remove any paint and clean the area the wire terminal sits against, at one mounting bolt. That gives you a double ground, the normal screw threads into the metal, and the wire to the battery. I will connect a ground wire to each component in a series (everything is essentially grounded together) with one wire going to the battery ground, all in addition to the normal ground. I don't rely on the body or the frame to serve as my only ground circuit.

    Another freebe: When I make a body or frame ground connection, I drill a 1/4" hole through the body or frame, clean both sides to bare metal, then put a 1" long bolt (with complete threads), with a flat washer, through the frame/body, then add the 2nd flat washer, and a nut and tighten it all up tight. Then I add another flat on top of the nut, add my ground wires (as many as I want that will fit) then add another flat washer and another nut, that gets tightened. This assures you have a solid connection to the frame/body, and it assures you have good tight connections to all the wires. If you need to remove, or add a wire, you simply remove the top nut & washer, do your wire, then reinstall the washer and nut if its still good (or replace either the nut or the washer as needed) you don't loose your frame connection. Then, down the road several years when the ground connection gets funky, you remove the wires, remove the bolt, clean off the body/frame/wire terminals and install a new bolt washers and nuts, (and terminals as needed) and your good for several more years. Gene
     
  30. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 40,127

    loudbang
    Member

    One should be cognizant of the fact that once the car is running the battery is out of the loop electrically speaking. You can prove it by simply disconnecting one battery cable and the car will still run. The battery is just for starting and accessories with the key off.

    Any Extra special super duper unnecessary grounds you wish to add should be routed to the alternator housing, and or bracket, or engine block where the grounding actually takes place more efficiently than at the battery that gets cut out.

    In the electrical world a ground is a ground is a ground. Adding more grounds in place of a properly grounded system does NOTHING.
     

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