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Mopar 833 and 360 questions

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Tocca, Oct 15, 2011.

  1. Tocca
    Joined: Oct 15, 2011
    Posts: 23

    Tocca
    Member
    from Sweden

    Hello everyone! I'm new here, but it seems to be a great forum! Me and my brother are building a hot rod from a 1932 Plymouth pa thrift. We are going for a drivetrain consisting of 8 3/4, 833 and 360. We bought an old a-body 833 from 64-65 with small tailshaft and ball and trunion but unfortionaly it's not complete, so I need some help with what parts I need as I have no experience with either this transmission or engine before. I am hoping some of you guys have this experience and are willing to help =)

    I need a shifter. I found a seller for a hurst shifter from an 1967 barracuda, but will it fit my transmission? I don't know if it is the same to all a-body 833...

    One of the arms for the shifter linkage is bent and have had some "bad" repairs done on it. Can it be repaired better and work or is it very important that these arms are 100% correct for the transmission to work correct?

    We got a flywheel with the transmission, but I am not sure what kind of engine it is balanced for. Is there any way of finding this out without any special equipment? The casting number says its to a 340, but it has six small drilled wholes in the same place as you would drill three big holes in a flywheel to a 318 to make it balanced for a 360. (I don't think this is original for a 340 flywheel?)

    If it's balanced for anything other than a 360, how do I re-balance it? Do I have to drill or can I fit weights to it? Something like this for example: http://www.kmjent.com/cart/product.php?productid=2077&cat=7109852
     
  2. SinisterCustom
    Joined: Feb 18, 2004
    Posts: 8,268

    SinisterCustom
    Member

    The '67 Barracuda shifter will work...
    Bent arm??? You mean one of the shift rods? Competition Plus shifters have bent rods....But if concerned....mount shifter and install a pin in it's side so it's locked into neutral, then install the trans levers and click trans into neutral...modify or adjust rods to easily install into shifter and trans levers...
    I'd be looking for a 360 flywheel or an aftermarket one that I was sure was balanced for a 360...
     
  3. Al Von
    Joined: Nov 19, 2005
    Posts: 257

    Al Von
    Member

    The 360 is externally balanced, so it needs a specific flywheel. The 340 is internally balanced, so the flywheel you have wont work on the 360.
     
  4. The 360 flywheels have a VERY obvious offset weight cast into them. You cannot (without spending a LOT of money) use a 318/340 flywheel on a 360. X2 on finding an aftermarket flywheel.

    Regarding the shifter, pretty much any Mopar Hurst shifter will work. the A-body linkage was unique in the way the rods wrapped around the crossmember. Whatever connects the shifter to the trans in the straightest fashion will work.

    If I remember correctly, that tailshaft will ONLY work with the trunnion driveline. I'd consider a later transmission and standard drive shaft...
     
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  5. SinisterCustom
    Joined: Feb 18, 2004
    Posts: 8,268

    SinisterCustom
    Member

    One other thing....a bolt on yoke from a 727 auto (from a truck or van) is the same spline count as the ball and trunnion yoke...so just swap it out...no need to find another trans, besides, the earlier trans have stronger shift forks. But if you can't find a yoke, there are companies that make a joint that bolts to the trunnion to run a conventional U-joint.
     
  6. A flywheel for a 360 is external ballanced, and will have three half inch holes to make up for the almost 20 oz inballance. A cast crank 340 is only a 4 oz. out of ballance, so they wount directly interchange. I thought the mopar chassis book had a diagram how to drill this out, but I cant find it. Your best bet may be to just brake down and buy a new flywheel.
     
  7. Tocca
    Joined: Oct 15, 2011
    Posts: 23

    Tocca
    Member
    from Sweden

    Thanks for the answer!

    Okey good! Just curious: Is it the same shifter to all a-bodys then? Or is it even that simple that it's the same to b/e-body too?

    Well. No.. I mean bent off and welded back together by someone who can't weld... =) I know they are bent by default, and the question is if we can repair this broken rod so it can fit proper. I will take your advice and try it out.

    Yea I will, but unfortionaly they don't grow on trees here in Sweden and I would prefer finding some less expensive way than importing one. Besides. I have a flywheel, would love it if I could at least identify what engine it is balanced to so I can put out a proper listing for it...

    Sorry I can't provide images to help my questions at this moment since the equipment is at my brothers at the moment.
     
  8. Tocca
    Joined: Oct 15, 2011
    Posts: 23

    Tocca
    Member
    from Sweden

    I have a propshaft (is that the right english word for the piece that connect transmission and rear axle?) for the ball and trunion. You guys mean the other end of this doesn't fit the 8 3/4 axle? As I said I don't have the equipment here right now so can't check it.

    Yea I know about the three holes to be drilled. And as I said mine has six holes, but smaller ones. I tought that maybe this removed the same weight as the three bigger ones, so that maybe mine was balanced for 360 in a different manner... far reach, I know, but worth finding out I thought...
     
  9. All a body shifters will work. B & E body will not, they mount to a different place on the tailshaft. Now for another problem, the bellhousing. what do you have lined up for that? the early A bodys used a 9 1/4 clutch and they don't hold to well, so if you can find a later bell from a 360 you can run a 10 1/2 clutch.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2011
  10. Tocca
    Joined: Oct 15, 2011
    Posts: 23

    Tocca
    Member
    from Sweden

    Hmm... Seems like we should have gotten a newer transmission huh? hehe... We got bellhousing, clutch disc and pressure plate with the transmission, but I don't know if its 9 1/4 or 10 1/2. I guess I have to measure that too then, and if its the 9 1/4 kind I need both new bellhousing, clutch and pressure plate? I want everything to hold of course, but I am pretty much going to run a standard hp 360, would 9 1/4 be to weak for this?
     
  11. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 6,361

    73RR
    Member


    The 70-71 are internal, the 72-73 are external

    The 360 flywheel must look like this:
    [​IMG]

    Does the transmission fit properly to the bellhousing?
    If there is a mis-match then consider that some 70's and 80's 360 use a 143 tooth flywheel which is larger OD than the 130 tooth flywheel. The flywheel must match the bellhousing or else the starter will not engage.

    .
     
  12. 50dodge4x4
    Joined: Aug 7, 2004
    Posts: 3,535

    50dodge4x4
    Member

    Is the bell & flywheel you have even from a V8 car? Many 64 & 65 A body's were slant 6 engines, that bell won't fit a V8 at all. If you have a V8 assembly, it may be cheaper to reballance your existing flywheel then to have one shipped in.

    As far as the clutch is concerned, there is a 10" clutch disc that fits in the 9 1/4 flywheel/clutch cover which would have been in a V8 car. I had one of those in my 65 Barracuda and it held up to a lot of abuse.

    About the propshaft (often refereed to as a drive shaft), by 65, most shafts had a front trunnion and a u-joint at the rear. 64 could go with either a rear u-joint or a rear trunnion joint, knowing Chrysler, the change over was probably when the ran out of the trunnion ended shafts on the production line sometime in the 64 production. Gene
     
  13. if I remember correct 64-65 input in the crank pilot is alot diffrent then a 66 and up.
     
  14. Tocca
    Joined: Oct 15, 2011
    Posts: 23

    Tocca
    Member
    from Sweden

    Yea, the transmission fit the bellhousing. And the bellhousing fit the 318 engine we have as mock-up before we buy a 360. And by fit I mean the bolts line up... haven't tested it further, just unloaded the parts at my brothers last weekend. I will be sure to measure the clutch disc. Lets hope it's bigger than 9 1/4 then. Since the bellhousing and flywheel is for v8 I think I might be in the clear here...

    And I also seem to remember that the drive shaft had ball and trunion in one end and u-joint in the other, so I might be in the clear here also =) Holding my breath until we'll be able to look it up.

    Yea rebalancing seems cheaper, but need to find someone who can do it. And since our flywheel already have 6 small drilled holes I woun't be as easy as just drilling three big holes... Better just try and looking for a used or aftermarked 360 flywheel...

    Hmm, Sorry I don't know all the english names for everything. Do you mean how the transmission drive pinion goes into the engine? Seemed to fit alright... but I didn't look for it beeing to small for the hole, I just saw that it went in... How do you mean it is different?
     
  15. Tocca
    Joined: Oct 15, 2011
    Posts: 23

    Tocca
    Member
    from Sweden

    Okey now I got some pictures and numbers. It seems like most of the parts is good right? The clutch is 10 1/2 inches and the bell housing is the appropriate size for this. The drive shaft has trunnion on one side and u-joint on the other, so it will fit both the transmission and the 8 3/4 axle. One of the linkages is broke as you can see, but doesn't seem to bad. Seems like it would work just to redo the welding job a bit better...

    Transmission has part number C 95639 which tells me it is the one from 64-65, and it will then fit with the hurst shifter from the barracuda 1967.

    The flywheel on the other hand. Does anyone recognize it? The part number is 2264598, and as far as I can find out that makes it a 318 flywheel. But I haven't seen those five drilled holes in the same place as there should be three drilled wholes if it were balanced for a 360. Is it balanced for an externally balanced 340?
     

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  16. Slayer certainly knows his stuff, as he has a hard running small block four speed car :D

    A couple things I can add as well:

    First, there are about three different pilot diameter sizes where the transmission's input bearing retainer pilots into the bellhousing. They all differ by about 1/4 inch or so, so make sure you have the right parts. If too small of an input bearing retainer is used with too large of a bellhousing, it will fit but not be aligned properly.

    Second, there are two different rear U-joints used - the 7260 and the 7290. The 7260 joint measures 2.125 inches between the snap rings on the bearing caps, and the 7290 joint measures 2.625 inches. Yokes can be interchanged on the 8-3/4 axle - but beware that the pinion nut on the 489 case sets the pinion bearing preload (do not disturb it unles you can duplicate the proper pinion bearing preload). 741 and 742 cases use shims, so the bearing preload setting is not affected by the pinion nut.

    Third, the ball and trunion joint may hold up, but its repair parts are not as easily found. If I were in Europe, I would use the most common parts possible. Later 833 transmissions used a slip yoke, and that is the way I would go. The A & F body cars used one (shorter) transmission tailhousing length, and the B, C, E body cars and light pick up trucks used the longer version. The E-body tailhousing has the shifter at the very back near the oil seal.
     

  17. Correct, but that diameter is where the automatic trans torque converter fits into. Stick shift cars are not affected by that change if I remember right...
     
  18. okay...thanks for all's input and help for our buds across the pond keep in mind they don't have the pick and pulls at the ready....he's a lead on the 360 standard flywheel - alot of 80's Dodge trucks had the 360/4 speed combo so you should be looking for that - give the part # on the bell housing so we can be sure what it would take....your shifter rods look okay ....the bent one is for the reverse - if I thinking okay....
     
  19. 50dodge4x4
    Joined: Aug 7, 2004
    Posts: 3,535

    50dodge4x4
    Member

    Looks like the parts you have will work.
    Your clutch disc (the part that goes on the transmission input shaft) looks like a 10" one to me, you actually measure from the outside edge of the disc. In a parts book it would be listed as a heavy duty 9 1/4" clutch disc. A real 10 1/2" clutch disc probably won't fit in your clutch cover. A 9 1/4" clutch disc measures between 9 1/4" and 10 1/2" and a 10 1/2" clutch disc measures between 10 1/2" and 11", and an 11" measures between 11" and about 11 1/4". The next bigger clutch does not fit in the smaller clutch cover. Confusing, I know, but consider the factories list the clutch as the smallest measurement in the series, and each series had a heavy duty version that was just smaller diameter then the next series size. But, that really doesn't matter as long as the parts all fit together and fit inside the bell housing. the only time it matters is when you have to order new stuff.

    The trunnion joint will hold up fine as long as your not beating it bad, and it is in good shape to start with.

    Most auto parts stores (at least here in the USA) have u joints available to match the drive shaft and the either of the 2 axle flanges. That way you don't have to change the axle flange.

    I think I would just go for the 360 balance on your flywheel. They should be able to tell if your current flywheel is neutral balanced, and I would think they should be able to adjust to the correct 360 balance. I've seen a lot of flywheels that had holes drilled or fly cuts on them from the factory to get to the neutral balance. Gene
     

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