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Modified Production

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by colesy, Apr 1, 2009.

  1. Charlie K
    Joined: Nov 28, 2016
    Posts: 30

    Charlie K
    Member

    Jim, the Corvette originally ran with parts off of the Nova. We originally used a Mopar 8/34 rear but went to Dana. Depending on the class, the rear ratios varied from 5.57 to 6.17. Again, depending on class, engines varied from 302, 310, 331 normally. At one point running in a lower gas class, we ran a destroked small block in the 250-260 cubic inch range. Engines always ran the latest versions of tunnel rams with Holley carbs. During the 1970's there was a lot of innovation in manifolds, heads and camshafts so the engines and components changed often. The cams were all solid rollers from Crane, Isky, Engle and others. Class rules dictated that heads were oem iron but could be ported extensively with any valves, springs, etc. We normally ran Crane Gold Roller Rockers with a stud girdle. Engines normally ran in the 9,000 to 10,000 rpm range ( although the destroked version may have run higher. I know that I launched the 310 version running in D/MP at 9,600 and shifted around 8,800 and ran through the traps at close to 9,000 rpm. Regarding transmissions, we originally ran Muncie M21, M22 four speeds with the old school 3600lbs clutches before we went to softer lower pressure clutches. We changed to Doug Nash five speed in the 1970's. The car was always driven foot to the floor, through all gear changes regardless of transmission used. That was the fun part of these cars! I can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday, but I can remember specifically getting out of the car after a really good pass at Atco, listening to the sounds of the hot motor and smelling gas, oil and hot rubber and thinking I just beat the hell out of this car and it doesn't get any better than this! Wish you luck with your build! You had to have a passion for these high maintenance cars which required routine inspection and replacement of parts. It was worth it because the fun factor exceeded problems
     
  2. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,060

    jimdillon
    Member

    Charlie great stuff. Always great to hear and read the way it was. It also helps to validate the reality of the driveline combinations and rpms that these great modified cars were turning. I remember these cars turning rpms in the range you reference and some of the younger guys here and elsewhere think we are exaggerating. I bought the 1960 project from the guy that built it in 1973 in Alabama (Ricky Moore) and he ran a 427 BBC and came out at 9600 and shifted in the 9000 range as well (it had run in the 60s with a different setup with a different owner). Ricky gave me the old 6 something gear set and Henry axles that he ran back then (it has Strange axles in it now I believe). Ricky ran mostly 1/8 mile tracks in Alabama. My project is a ways off as I got a couple of projects in front of it but here is a picture as it sits now (with the super tricks, similar to your car). Ricky kept the body but I have a rough body that I will put with car when the day comes. You can see the back end of the body. Easy to get hooked on these cars as you may imagine. I got hooked back in the 60s and told myself I would not forget them and I have not. Thanks for the memories autos-14 016.jpg . Makes the car a bit more special. Do you know whatever happened to the car?
     
  3. WillyB
    Joined: Aug 7, 2016
    Posts: 115

    WillyB
    Member

    No front end spacers?? And are those the bellhousing 55 chevy style rear engine mounts?
    Trying to figure out what to do for my '62.
     
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  4. Charlie K
    Joined: Nov 28, 2016
    Posts: 30

    Charlie K
    Member

    Jim, the car is still in eastern Pa. but I don't know the new owner's name. It was sold by Doug's widow about two years ago. Doug died in the early 2000's but the car stayed in the family until then. When Doug was in remission for liver cancer, we put the car together with a 370 cubic inch I believe (400 cubic inch bore and 3.48 inch stroke) block with Brodix aluminum heads, solid roller cam, single four barrel on a single plane manifold hooked to a Powerglide. In this configuration it would run low 10.0 times. The car was capable of going faster but Doug wanted to avoid having to upgrade and recertify a new cage by running in the 9's. When the car was sold it was painted solid red with a black slanted vertical stripe with K&G lettered on the black. Your frame looks similar to what we ran. Dana with coilovers and a four link. Wish you all the luck with your build! It's great to see people like you keeping this era and type of racing alive. Looking forward to following your build.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
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  5. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,060

    jimdillon
    Member

    Charlie good to hear the car is still around. Will have to look for it at some meets hopefully. In the middle of another restoration with a tad less horsepower (1903 Cadillac), so the 60 Vette will have to wait its turn. Thanks for all the info.

    Willy B as you may realize by the time that the Vettes ran in MP in the 70s the stance was down so there were not many with frame spacers. This 60 has several small spacers to achieve caster (probably a little over 1" at the rear edge of the front crossmember which I believe is around 8* caster-maybe 9*). My avatar has a 2" spacer I fabricated and then 3 of the stock 2* caster shims-which puts me at around 5 to 5 1/2* caster. Most guys in the 60s used 4" I beam but I like them a little less height than that so I fab my own. I can post a picture in the Corvette Hot Rod thread as I would rather not muck up this great thread with Corvette minutia.

    Thanks again Charlie.
     
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  6. Charlie K
    Joined: Nov 28, 2016
    Posts: 30

    Charlie K
    Member

    WillyB, hard to tell by the picture but it could be mounts for the engine plate between the engine and the bellhousing which was legal for modified. I'm not sure that spacers were legal in modified which required stock front end back in the 1960 and 1970's. Our Corvette and others that I remember always were nose down with a pronounced rubber rake.
     
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  7. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,060

    jimdillon
    Member

    Willy B sorry I failed to answer in regards to the mounts. Since this car was set up for a big block the front mounts were fabricated by Ricky and the rear mount was set up to attach to the Lakewood bell housing (which I have). He set it up this way and cut away part of the frame so he could remove the trans at the track without having to jack the engine up with a jack or whatever. If they are 55 Chevy rear mounts then you know more than I do about them as I am not familiar with 55 Chevy mounts sadly.

    Of course Charlie is right on the rake-quite distinctive for the era. I also believe Charlie is correct on the spacer issue although you could use the appropriate number of shims to achieve generally 7+* of caster.
     
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  8. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 32,267

    loudbang
    Member

    E/MP Camaro at the grove

    EMP Camaro at the grove.JPG

    KOSTIC & CHRISTIAN C/MP CHEVY National record holder

    KOSTIC & CHRISTIAN - C-MP CHEVY National recvord holder.JPG
     
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  9. WillyB
    Joined: Aug 7, 2016
    Posts: 115

    WillyB
    Member

    We had a Chevy II with the 4 lug rims...
     
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  10. WillyB
    Joined: Aug 7, 2016
    Posts: 115

    WillyB
    Member

    Looks like a fabricated roll cage front mount just behind the stock
    body doorjam (birdcage) mount? I'm trying to figure out where to
    do the front cage mounts, since the frame (1950 chevy, really) was
    really skinny... and the cage needs to be wide.
     
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  11. WillyB
    Joined: Aug 7, 2016
    Posts: 115

    WillyB
    Member



    Sorry, but another question........ How much was the rear of the frame narrowed?
    And.... how narrow is that rear end? Looks like the slicks fit under the stock outer
    fenders, so it must be a lot?
     
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  12. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,661

    Larry T
    Member

    Off the top of my head (dangerous), one of the rules for MP was that the slick could not stick out past the body line. So there is your start to tucked tires, narrowed frame rails and rear ends.
     
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  13. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 32,267

    loudbang
    Member


    That car started life as not being a V-8 car so it came with the 4 lugs. Look at the back that has been changed to 5 lugs with the bigger rear installed for the V-8 power.
     
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  14. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,060

    jimdillon
    Member

    Willy B hopefully I am not screwing this thread up with unnecessary minutia but, this car had a 6 point cage with nothing going forward of the firewall (although with the stock column I believe a forward set of bars would be safer -to say nothing of the potential of meeting today' tech at some tracks). The four bars in the interior of the car placed the bars out as far as possible and the mounts were fabricated and welded to the frame. Technically there were no birdcages until 63 in Vettes but there was some metal structure under the dash to help locate the doorjambs to the dash and firewall (some aluminum and some steel). If you notice the forward bar you reference it would go pretty deep into the pocket just forward of the door jamb which is wide as you can go and stay within the shell of the body.

    You can see in the attached picture how he made the mounts that are welded to the frame and also see where he moved the frame when he narrowed it. If you measure a stock frame outside to outside of the frame in the rear area behind the axle let's say it is right around 44"-this car is now 33 3/16". A stock differential housing is right around 55" outside of housing flange to outside of housing flange. This rear assembly is different from stock or an Olds/Pontiac and it had disc brakes on the rear and so the corresponding measurement is a bit different. The measurement of this rear setup is 48" from the outside of the axle flange to outside of axle flange. So to try and correspond the stock setup you would have to add the axles to the stock setup which would add about 3" overall so it would be 58" (axle flange to axle flange) compared to let's say to 48".

    The tires are 14.5 X 32 X 15 and they did fit within the bodywork. Vette -12-13 008.jpg
     
  15. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 32,267

    loudbang
    Member

    Most of us actually LIKE LEARNING something from the people that know the subject. So I say keep the stories coming it's not just for photos LOL.
     
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  16. WillyB
    Joined: Aug 7, 2016
    Posts: 115

    WillyB
    Member

    Thank you for that picture and explanation! That picture and the other one
    of the frame are what I was looking for!
     
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  17. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,564

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't know what wheels were used on the front, but they are probably 15" Nash; they were a popular wheel for the 4 bolt drums needing a tall tire/wheel combo. Try finding them today! I had a friend that built a 300 inch truck six for an early Falcon Drag Car. He kept the stock 4 bolt front with Nash wheels, and the 5 bolt 9 inch rear. He sold the complete car on a payment system to someone he did't even know and did't have any info on (???) in about 71'; guess how that worked out for him. I'm pretty sure the Nova/Chevy II 4 bolts were the same pattern as the Ford 4 bolts. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
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  18. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 32,267

    loudbang
    Member

  19. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 32,267

    loudbang
    Member

    Randy Harrison

    Randy Harrison.JPG

    See it and HEAR it run here:
     
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  20. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 32,267

    loudbang
    Member

    A/MP Tempest

    EDIT: from GearheadsQCE
    George Delorean brother to John

    amp tempest.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
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  21. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 32,267

    loudbang
    Member

    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
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  22. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,678

    GearheadsQCE
    Member

    George Delorean brother to John. A LOT of back door 'arrangements'.
     
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  23. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 32,267

    loudbang
    Member

    Added that info thanks
     
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  24. II FUNNY
    Joined: Jul 31, 2010
    Posts: 1,838

    II FUNNY
    Member

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  25. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 32,267

    loudbang
    Member

    Tony Feil’s C-1 E/Modified Production Corvette is prepped for another round at Englishtown, New Jersey.

    Feil-Tony-2.jpg
     
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  26. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 32,267

    loudbang
    Member

    Fred Hartman’s G/Modified Production ’55 Chevy ran a 287 CID small-block Chev with a Tunnel-Ram 2×4 intake, ported heads and a five-speed manual box. 13 lbs. per CID G/MP class rules required a hefty 3731 lb. car weight.

    Hartman-Fred-1-595x445.jpg
     
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  27. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 32,267

    loudbang
    Member

    Fred Hartman’s G/Modified Production ’55 Chevy ran a 287 CID small-block Chev with a Tunnel-Ram 2×4 intake, ported heads and a five-speed manual box. 13 lbs. per CID G/MP class rules required a hefty 3731 lb. car weight.

    mp.jpg

    The late Larry Kopp owned Ted’s Towing Service, a family business in Baltimore, MD. His weekends were spent pounding a series of Modified Eliminator winners that included Camaro’s, Corvette’s and a Chevelle Malibu. All of Kopp’s cars were functionally clean and well prepared, and exceptionally competitive. Kopp won many classes and Eliminators and set numerous class records with power from Dave Alioso Racing Engines.

    Kopp-Larry.jpg

    One of my personal favorites watched it in awe many times Ralph Ridgeway in the Debs car

    Ridgeway-2-595x446.jpg

    Ridgeway is credited with taking the long-runner intake originally devised in 1959 by the Ramchargers, for their C/Altered ’50 Plymouth, and adapting it into the modern 2×4 Tunnel-Ram manifold. Ralph took a Corvette Rochester Fuel Injection bed, cut off the top and mounted a 2×4 pad for a pair of carburetors. It worked so well he began selling his modified “Ridge-Runner” intakes to racers before Edelbrock, Weiand and Offenhauser began casting their own long-ram intakes. Here’s a look at the original, on Ridgeway’s C/MP ’55.

    Ridgeway-3-595x499.jpg
     
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  28. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 32,267

    loudbang
    Member

    Cotton Perry capably drove and Jim Hedrick built the inline six-cylinder Chevy engines for the Perry & Hedrick “Pocket Rocket” H/Modified Production Chevy II Nova. Over the 70’s decade this team nearly always won H/MP class and a score of Modified Eliminator events. The late Jim Hedrick’s Race Engine Design engine shop, in Rossville, Georgia, specialized in big-inch dirt track modified engines, but his six-banger power ruled Southeastern drag racing. (Jim Hill photo)

    Six-In-A-Row-Does-Go-595x435.jpg

    Memphis, Tennessee’s Joe Lunati took this homebuilt, Devin bodied A/Modified Sports car to many Street Eliminator wins during the 1960’s. Lunati later formed Lunati Cams & Cranks. His AM/SP car used a small-block Chevy for power. Joe later removed the Devin body and dropped on an all-steel Corvair body to run as an early Funny Car before building a tube chassis, blown big-block Chevy with a flip-top, fiberglass Corvair body. This was shot at an NHRA World Championship Series race in 1965, at Palm Beach Int. Raceway. (Jim Hill Photo)

    Lunati-Joe-AM-SP-PBIR-1965-595x462.jpg

    C/Modified Production class trophy run at Paolm Beach International Raceway, 1965, found Bill Bussart’s ’55 Chevy (left) facing Roger Vinci’s ’57. Bussart, from Miami, and Vinci, from Orlando, were regulars at the West Palm Beach track. A homebuilt 301 CID Chevy with two AFB Carter carbs on an Edelbrock Tunner Ram intake powered the Bussart & Cochrane ’55. Vinci ran out of Bo Laws’ Orlando shop and later became a well known Corvette tuning expert. (Jim Hill photo)

    Cptn6-55.jpg
     
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  29. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 32,267

    loudbang
    Member

    posted by Johnny_Steele in the in motion thread

    Look at the hood "Scoops" when you click to make it large

    [​IMG]
     
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