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Projects Model T Gow Job

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by guitarguy, Sep 19, 2018.

  1. Bearing Burner
    Joined: Mar 2, 2009
    Posts: 851

    Bearing Burner
    Member
    from W. MA

    If you are keeping to a build no later than 1935, that is the depths of the depression you need a lot of square headed nuts and bolts as new hex would have been to expensive and you would have anything that was hanging around the barn.
     
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  2. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 217

    guitarguy
    Member

    Your right, but I have that mostly covered. I have a good supply of square nuts of various sizes. Square bolts, not so much though. I have a bunch of slot head machine screws too and some slot head wood screws. Owning a couple other Model T's have taught me to use period correct hardware...but don't discount hex screws coming from parts cars or machinery too.
     
  3. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,243

    The37Kid
    Member

    Only place Ford used the square bolts was on battery terminals, think I have about ten pounds of bolts & hex nuts fore them. Bob
     
  4. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 217

    guitarguy
    Member

    But he is saying (from what I'm reading) for assembling a part that is added onto the T chassis/body that wasn't originally equipped. Your right, Ford pretty much used hex hardware from the factory on a T. However if one were to add a bracket or something that was bolted on, it would more likely have square nuts and possibly might have square head screws too.
     
  5. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 217

    guitarguy
    Member

    Progress....even if small is good. As usual with our crazy northeast weather, that 2 feet of snow we had gotten is just about all gone. Today was "warm" (high 30's) but very windy. None the less, after some things that had to be done around the house, I found a little time to brave the wind. I went out, bolted in the rear piece, installed the front piece, did some more cutting and test fitting. Final result is the torque tube is all cut, and just needs to be cleaned and then preped for welding. The fit is great, I ended up removing 8-3/8" from the tube.

    Edit: I forgot to include the thickness of the cut off wheel and the little sliver I took to get it just right, so I actually took 8-1/2" total out in the end. I had measured just the cut section previously.

    Speedster project 69.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  6. i like cars & stuff
    Joined: Sep 14, 2012
    Posts: 58

    i like cars & stuff
    Member
    from Aotearoa

    Think i'll watch this thread.
    If you're still using a 28 chevy head on a T block that could be in my interests.
     
  7. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 217

    guitarguy
    Member

    As of this moment, yes, that is the ultimate plan. It will initially be run in with a standard head though.

    Thank You for your interest!
     
    David Mazza likes this.
  8. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 379

    Desmodromic
    Member

    Cool project, should be lots of fun when finished.

    A couple of thoughts for anyone planning to do a similar car:

    I'd look into using Chevrolet wire wheels, which were made in 17, 18 and 19" diameters (maybe larger). These are 5.5" bolt circle, vs. 5" T wood spoke wheels, so still need adapters. However, like the T, they are 6-lug, so wouldn't necessitate adding an additional set of 5 lug holes at a smaller bolt circle, to avoid interference between one pair of lug holes, as resulting from the difference in lug count.

    As with many others, I have an aversion to steering tie rods being in front of the axle. However, I think it would be preferable as a "last resort", rather than putting bends in an aft-mounted tie-rod, which would be subjected to bending stresses not present in a straight rod. (I anticipate many comments saying they've bent tie rods for engine swaps to avoid oil pan interference, and it worked fine.) The steering arms at the wheels can be bent out, or new ones fabricated, to retain Ackerman geometry.
     
  9. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 217

    guitarguy
    Member

    If you know, then you know......

    Speedster project 70.jpg
     
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  10. David Mazza
    Joined: Aug 25, 2018
    Posts: 55

    David Mazza

    I feel a little to blame. Had I never said hey let’s all go to Langs!
     
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  11. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 217

    guitarguy
    Member

    That's true, but I have no one to blame but myself. At least I can sleep well now knowing it's my possession, and more importantly not sitting on a shelf somewhere unused.

    So the story is, we walk into Lang's Old Car Parts a month and a half ago. While looking at the Aldrich roadster and looking around, my jaw is dropping seeing some really neat speed parts. It left me sleepless...literally. I know how expensive this stuff is, I also know that obtaining something like this would have to happen in pieces....one part at a time. So with nothing to lose, I made some wanted ads across the internet to see what I could shake loose, and decided what the hell...what do I have to lose by simply asking Lang's what they had to actually sell and what did they want. Far be it for me to think buying from a dealer / vendor could be affordable, but I have bought used parts from them before reasonably. Well, turns out, it was what I considered reasonable. Certainly I made an offer for a little less, but I put my big boy pants on, and remembered how I lost out on a similar Frontenac deal on the internet 2+ years ago. I paid up. I am also now broke again---such is life, I'll make more money.

    This is a Frontenac T head. This is their upgrade for stock engines. They made a T head that claims 60PSI (4:1 compression), a S head (75PSI - 5:1 compression) and a R head (85PSI - 6:1 compression). All three of these heads are very similar, basically the same general casting (single inlet intake, triple ports for exhaust) with subtle differences---most notably the compression. The T and S heads have 1-13/16" valves both intake and exhaust, the R head features 1-7/8" valves intake and exhaust. There was other models, including a SR (100PSI - 7:1 compression), that also offered dual intake ports, as well as SOHC and DOHC versions later. Frontenac was the brain child of Louis and Aurther Chevrolet, and they ran Indianapolis fairly successfully. The company was spawned in the late teens and didn't survive the depression and folded in '31.

    So after some cleanup in the parts washer at work, here is what I have. The valve train is not there, but I am confident I can come up with something, and I am looking at modern type pieces, only because I can cover it all up under the cover. If it was going to be an open valve head, I would stick with something original. Push-rods are easy, just 5/16", so anyone of the makers such as Manta, Trendz, or Smith Bros. could be tapped for those. The rockers are key though. The valves I have learned that BB Chevy +.100" length, 1.88" diameter are about right for replacements. My goal is to make a super light valvetrain. Intake and exhaust manifolds will have to be scratchbuilt, but that too is easy enough. To me, the T head is better, because I can then play with pistons to achieve higher compression later on. I can grow into this head so to speak.

    Here is what I ended up with after some cleanup.

    Fronty T head 9.jpg


    Fronty T head 10.jpg

    Fronty T head 12.jpg

    Fronty T head 13.jpg
     
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  12. adam401
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 1,801

    adam401
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That's an absolute thing of beauty. Great score
     
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  13. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,243

    The37Kid
    Member

    You aren't the first guy to get an overhead without rockers. Someone will come up with replacements. I think Austin Healy rockers were used by some people years ago. Great addition to your project. Bob DSCF0455.JPG
     
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  14. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 217

    guitarguy
    Member

    I had on hand to measure, a BB Chevy aluminum roller rocker (just a little to short) and the '28 Chevy stock rockers (to long). Upon research, I have ideas, but the Austin Healy rockers I hadn't heard of before. I will look into that also. I am not real worried about it, the fact the head is milled flat on top makes it alot easier VS. something with cast in rocker stands.
     
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  15. Liberty Garage
    Joined: Oct 14, 2008
    Posts: 76

    Liberty Garage
    Member

    Try Rocker Arms Unlimited (530-242-1316) in Redding,Ca. They have made several rocker arm sets (even roller) for me.They can do the stands and shaft also. If you have them put ball ends on the rockers like chevy 6 you can use 216 chevy pushrods. I put allen bolt in the adjustable lifter and shorten and round the end of the pushrod to fit..
    good luck
     
  16. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,243

    The37Kid
    Member



    If they make your yellow speedster run like it does that is all recommendation anyone needs.:) Bob
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
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  17. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,501

    97
    Member

    There is No need to pilfer the rockers from someone's Healey, those Austin 3 litre motors came out in some Austin trucks and commuter cars too. Like Wolesley 6/110, Austin Princess/Westminster etc. In fact the engine looks a lot like a stretched 6 cylinder version of a 4 cylinder B series ( MGB , Morris Oxford , Austin Cambridge etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the B rockers were the same.

    healy 3000 engine.jpg
     
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  18. studebakerjoe
    Joined: Jul 7, 2015
    Posts: 516

    studebakerjoe
    Member

    s-l400 (1).jpg Guitarguy, you could check out Toyota Landcruiser rockers. Not sure on the dimensions but might be worth a look.
     
  19. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,501

    97
    Member

    That is quite an irony Studebakerjoe!
    The F series Toyota engine was based on the GMC six , but the head was based on the Stovebolt Chevy head. The F series engine replaced the Toyota B series engine which was almost a direct copy of the 29 to 36 Chevy 6.
    So maybe , just maybe all you actually need is a set of Chevrolet Stovebolt or GMC rockers to cut up and play with!! Wouldn't that be ironic!
     
  20. studebakerjoe
    Joined: Jul 7, 2015
    Posts: 516

    studebakerjoe
    Member

    97, O was thinking that too. I also thought with the Toyota being more recent might be easier to find.
     
  21. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 217

    guitarguy
    Member

    The MGB rockers, I had someone on EBay measure a set. They were kind enough to do that and responded the the center of the ball to the center of the valve tip pad is 2-7/16".

    Unfortunately that is too short. I need something in the 2-3/4" area. They need to be straight with NO offset on the ball side or valve side. If anyone has rockers from various engines around and care to measure for me, it would be greatly appreciated.

    I will check into the Toyota ones when I get a moment.

    Thanks to all that can help.

    Sent from my thinks it's smarter than me smart phone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  22. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,243

    The37Kid
    Member

    You just need to find the T guys that have done this in the past, maybe they aren't on the HAMB yet. Bob
     
  23. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 217

    guitarguy
    Member

    Yup, when a I get a few moments, I am on the Model T Ford Club of America site also, I'll post there too.

    Sent from my thinks it's smarter than me smart phone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  24. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,501

    97
    Member


    My friend Bob , almost next door, has a Healey 100/6 , he is going to have the valve cover off in the near future... We will get the rockers measured... there are heaps of those Austin trucks and motors lying about on farms here, if they are the same as Healey ( and I do expect that is the case) and they will work for you , I am sure I will be able to find you a set.
    He told me to tell you to check these websites
    If you want to go with New parts CW Moss sells new sets for $799.00 .
    https://mossmotors.com/rocker-assembly
    and Denis Welch Motorsport makes hi ratio roller rockers.
    https://www.bighealey.co.uk/
    scroll down this page from another business called A Head 4 Healeys,
    https://www.ahead4healeys.co.uk/ENGINE---6-CYLINDER--EN6--ct170.aspx .

    I also have a dead early stovebolt engine lying in the yard, I will measure the rockers and report back. I think it would be a waste of money sending Chevy parts to the USA, but at least if they measure up you will know what to look for.
     
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  25. hillbilly4008
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,782

    hillbilly4008
    Member
    from Rome NY

    I've got a 270 GMC core here. If you find out they may work I'll pull them for ya.
     
  26. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 484

    rwrj
    Member
    from SW Ga

    guitarguy,
    This might work. MG TD, the engine is called an XPAG. Moss Motors sells the rocker arms for about $25 each. Sorry for the fuzzy pictures. It's getting dark out. I can take some more precise measurements by the end of the weekend, if you like.

    IMG_20200107_172147375.jpg

    IMG_20200107_172201974.jpg

    Here's the link for the replacement ones.

    https://mossmotors.com/catalogsearch/result/?cat=8325&q=rocker+arm
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020

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