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model a to b trans. adaptor

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by bolensboneyard, Aug 13, 2011.

  1. bolensboneyard
    Joined: Aug 10, 2011
    Posts: 5

    bolensboneyard
    Member
    from Charleston

    Does anyone know if a model b transmission can be adapted to a model a bell housing, and if so , where can I get the adapter? Bobby or you can respond by email Bolensboneyard@comcast.net thanks
     
  2. I am sure someone has already responded by email to you (sure be nice to see it posted so everyone can learn from it) so I won't take the time to respond.

    In the future I suggest you have the responses posted so others can read them, learn from them and validate them (or invalidate them if appropriate, everyone makes mistakes sometimes). Also when others read the responses it may suggest further things that may impact what you are doing (there are a couple).

    Charlie Stephens
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2011
  3. reece
    Joined: Apr 27, 2004
    Posts: 351

    reece
    Member
    from NC

    Here is a link to a kit to put a V8 trans behind an A motor.

    http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/3937

    You can use the Model B oil pan and flywheel housing but you loose the socket you need for your wishbone when you use the V8 trans. The kit has a fabbed bracket to address that issue.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2011
  4. You also lose the shaft that the Model A brake and clutch pedals use. The kit also addresses that issue. I believe the parts of the kit that are used to mount the wishbone and brake and clutch pedals will work with a B transmission. If you want to use the Model B transmission you can use the Model B flywheel housing and the Model A oil pan. If you use the Model B oil pan on the Model A you will have a leak (should I say gusher) at the rear main (unless you modify it). The rear main bearing housing on the Model B is much larger than the rear main on the Model A.
    Charlie Stephens
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2011
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  5. reece
    Joined: Apr 27, 2004
    Posts: 351

    reece
    Member
    from NC

    I was under the impression that if you used the Model B flywheel housing that you had to use the Model B oil pan which has a cover that attaches to the lower part of the flywheel housing. You are definitely correct about the shaft for the brake and clutch pedals.
     
  6. You are right that using the A pan and the B flywheel housing would leave the lower half of the flywheel without a cover. It would be necessary to fabricate something up to cover lower part of the flywheel. I have always been concerned with doing something like this about whether or not the flywheel housing would be strong enough without the additional minor support provided by the oil pan. Of course if you buy the kit you referenced from Snyder's you would have the same amount of load on an aluminum flywheel housing that this would apply to the cast iron housing. I wonder if you need to fabricate a sheet metal cover for the flywheel when you use the kit from Snyder's? Another thing is that I believe this set up would create a problem with the rear Motor mounts for a Model A. There are pads to mount the brackets for the engine stabilizer rods for the Model B in about the same place as the rear motor mounts on the Model A but I am not sure if they are in exactly the same place. It would sure be useful to know what this is all going into (otherwise stock Model A, speedster, hot rod?).

    Charlie Stephens
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2011
  7. Another thing you should watch out for is that you cannot use a Model A flywheel with a Model B transmission unless you do some machine work on the outer edge of the flywheel. The stock Model A flywheel will rub the Model B transmission case. Ford specified in the Green Bible that the Model B flywheel (B 6375) was to be used as the repair part for the Model A so you might already have the correct flywheel. If a Model A flywheel was lightened they may have removed enough metal in the right area to work in a Model B transmission. If you decide to use a V8 transmission with an adapter you might ask the company that supplies the adapter if any machine work is required on a stock Model A flywheel (or maybe someone will post the answer).

    Charlie Stephens
     
  8. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,922

    Fenders
    Member

    I'm confused, the Model B was a four cylinder car.....
     
  9. ^^^^ Ford introduced the 4 cyl. "B" motor in 1932. Main improvement was now balanced and better oil circulation.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011
  10. I was wondering what the difference is between the model "B" transmission and model "A". What improvements were made between the two transmissions?

    Yes, the model "B" is a four banger.
     
  11. The Model B was a 4 cylinder produced in 1932 along with the first V8 (designated the Model 18 by Ford). It is more common (although I don't know why except maybe for availability) to use the transmission from the V8 (1932-1939) in a Model A (the V8 transmission case was different from the Model B case although the gears were the same between the Model B and V8).

    Charlie Stephens
     
  12. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,922

    Fenders
    Member

    Yes.... OP asks how to put a B trans in a Model A and what confused me was someone tells him how to put a V8 trans in....

    BTW I also would like to know the difference between an A and a B trans.
     
  13. The Model B and V8 (Model 18) transmissions have different cases but both used the same gears. These gear sets were the first to have syncro. The gear ratios were slightly better compared to the Model A. As time went on the syncros got better with 1939 being the best. Later gears will usually go into the earlier cases but in some situations there may be interference between the gears and case. The gears continued to be used through at least 1948 but the transmissions became side shifters with the shift lever mounted on the column for cars. Trucks continued to have floor mounted shifters but went to open drive in the early forties.

    Charlie Stephens
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011
  14. Fortyfordguy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2002
    Posts: 644

    Fortyfordguy
    Member

    As Charlie said....the B tranny was simply a gearbox case unique to the Model B (4 cylinder cars 32-33) that had the V8 type gearset inside. Since the internal dimensions are the same, these are often modified to use the 39-48 gears inside the B case. You have to use the 39 type toploader shifter housing and lever, so you give up the exact "32-33" look of the original slanted shift tower.

    I have built these before....due to the more shallow interior up front, the regular 28 tooth (and 29 tooth) cluster gear set doesnt install normally. It's extra work but it can be done. You can also change the rear support to any of the 32-48 type closed drive mounts.

    Another option in building one of these is to set up the gearbox with the 1942-52 type open drive gearset. With this arrangement, you would use a regular open driveshaft.
     
  15. AstroZombie
    Joined: Jul 17, 2006
    Posts: 1,788

    AstroZombie
    Member

    What would be the benefit of running a V8 Transmission in a Model A? No more double clutching, better touring gears? I have seen the Snyders kit before, and have a V8 trans, but never knew the benefits.
     
  16. The only benefits are no more double clutching and better ratios in first and second. The Model A is a little low in first and then a big jump to second for some peoples liking. Mitchell has addressed this in their syncro gear sets for the Model A. The "touring gear" comes from a high rear end ratio. Both (and most transmissions except for the late model transmissions with overdrives in top gear) of the transmissions are 1 to 1 in high gear.

    Charlie Stephens
     
  17. AstroZombie
    Joined: Jul 17, 2006
    Posts: 1,788

    AstroZombie
    Member

    Thanks Charlie. I love the banger in my A, but the gearing makes it an "in town only" car and I really dislike that!! I don't need to have a race car, but something a bit more driveable would be nice. Perhaps I should hang onto that V8 trans and plan to put it in the Model A.
     
  18. Forget the transmission. They are all 1 to 1 in third gear. You need to change the rear end ratio. I have 3.54 rear end gears in my '31 RDPU and am very happy with it on the freeway (except for the front fenders making it light in the front end at freeway speeds and easily blown around by passing trucks or wind gusts).

    Charlie Stephens
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2011
  19. AstroZombie
    Joined: Jul 17, 2006
    Posts: 1,788

    AstroZombie
    Member

    Haha, yeah I couldn't imagine driving mine on the freeway!! I'll have to look into rear gears then. I don't mind double clutching (to me it's all part of the fun of an A)
     
  20. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,204

    RussTee
    Member

    follow the threads on the banger thread a lot of good advise there the common practice nowdays is to use the t5 trans cheaper to as well as better there are kits avaliable [see the banger thread links at the start]
     
  21. That will solve one problem but remember that at highway speeds (65 MPH) the front fenders tend to act like airplane wings and lift. This makes the car susceptable to being blown around when big trucks pass or you encounter wind gusts. Sort of feels like power steering without the control of modern power steering. Going on a rally might be fun but the driving will get old soon. I would strongly recommend the 3.54 gears but they won't solve all of the problems. Can you find someone with those gears and ride in their car?

    Charlie Stephens
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  22. 36Brua
    Joined: Jul 31, 2007
    Posts: 87

    36Brua
    Member

    So when doing a B eng. with B transmission.into an A the misc brackets for the V-8 trans swap will work for the pedal assy, wishbone rear mount ? and
    will / is the stk A torque tube U joint a direct bolt up to the B transmission ? i have a B trans w. later gear set. this uses the 'larger' shift fork? I have a later 2bl detent shifter for this. Is VanPelt reproducing those forks ? I started this a couple yrs ago and am trying to fiqure out where Ileft off !Thanks for the help!!
     
  23. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
    Member

    This is a good read. I am also looking at putting a B motor, with a B bellhousing and then using a 32 to 39 transmission in my 29 roadster.

    Can those more knowledgeable, comment on more specifically what I will need to do in regards to pedals, linkage, mounts, bearing retainer, etc., and wether a torque tube needs to be modified or not?

    Thank you, Joe
     
  24. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
    Member

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