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Technical Model A Title

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Time Bandit, Nov 10, 2018.

  1. Time Bandit
    Joined: Nov 6, 2018
    Posts: 67

    Time Bandit
    Member

    I found a coupe that is just a body. He is selling it with a pink slip. Can you register a model a body with out a frame or engine? It would help me if you can because I have a chassis without numbers.
     
  2. weemark
    Joined: Sep 1, 2002
    Posts: 814

    weemark
    Member
    from scotland

    a lot of model A chassis don't have a number stamped into them, Ford didn't stamp them all at the factory as the chassis number was not meant as an identifier.
     
  3. H380
    Joined: Sep 20, 2015
    Posts: 451

    H380
    Member
    from Louisiana

    Depends on how your state registers and titles cars. Are any of the Ford numbers on the pink slip to be found on the car? If not the pink slip is worthless. Again depends on your state and how they do things.
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  4. Time Bandit
    Joined: Nov 6, 2018
    Posts: 67

    Time Bandit
    Member

    I live in CA & the car is in Ca. I was just wondering how it would be possible to register just the body. Seems like you couldnt
     

  5. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,793

    tfeverfred
    Member

    I wouldn't say it's just a body, when you go to the DMV. How else would they know?
     
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  6. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,899

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It, along with the matching number on the engine, was indeed an identifier.

    The ONLY identifier.

    For US built vehicles, if it was not stamped on the frame, it was an ERROR, or it was a dealer service part replacement frame, and the installer failed to follow Ford procedures.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  7. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 28,166

    Mr48chev
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    Have to agree with H380 100% there. What we say for the state we live in is useless to you unless you live in the same state as the person doing the saying. Every state is different on how they handle titling vehicles. Some are a royal pain in the ass and some are rather simple.
     
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  8. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,899

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    No, you cannot.

    You have to have the frame, with the numbers stamped in it.

    If there are any stamped on the body, or on a tag on the body, (unless it's a Briggs), they are fake.

    That pink slip is as good as a fraudulent document. It is worth nothing, and could lead you directly to law enforcement if you try to use it.
     
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  9. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,899

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    They will know, because a DMV employee, a CHP officer, or a CA licensed and bonded vehicle verifier will need to see the stamped serial number in the frame.

    DMV, CHP, and a lot of verifiers all have the master book that shows where the numbers need to be, and what they are supposed to look like.

    Also, for every inspector, it needs to be a complete vehicle.

    Of course, as a hot rodder, my idea of complete might differ from DMV or CHP.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  10. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 28,166

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Time Bandit, in case you didn't already figure out Gimpyshotrods is our go to California expert in these matters as he is the one who is licensed to inspect and certify them in California. .
    Looks like you have a nice frameable wall hanger there.
     
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  11. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,899

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The bottom line here is, if you don't know what US Federal law is, and you don't know what the state laws are, for the relevant state, don't give advice.

    Especially do not give advice that could lead a person directly into committing a crime.
     
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  12. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,899

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If the body is good, and affordable, I'd still buy it.
     
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  13. How do you know the body and pink slip go together since there is no legitimate number on the body? How do you know the body wasn't stolen and the pink slip bought on EBAY? I think the pink slip is a wall hangar and the body just a part that could be used when building or repairing a car.

    Charlie Stephens
     
  14. weemark
    Joined: Sep 1, 2002
    Posts: 814

    weemark
    Member
    from scotland

    Sorry I disagree. Go and read http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ABenginenumbers.htm

    It says "It is popularly but incorrectly claimed that the serial number of the vehicle was a frame number. Actually, not all Model A vehicles even had a frame number. A great many did not have a frame number stamped, and it varied depending on when and which of the more than two dozen assembly plants completed the vehicle final assembly. There is no Ford literature available indicating a frame number was ever intended for any primary identification of a vehicle by Ford."
     
  15. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,899

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Exactly.
     
  16. I bought a Model A coupe body 2 years ago that came without a chassis but did have a title. Just like the original post. I took the title down to a local DMV and had it transferred with no questions, no hassle and no inspections. The body now sits on a repo frame that has the same numbers on it as the title, it's all licensed registered in my name. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Life is good.
     
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  17. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,899

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I know the history of Ford, going back to it's origin.

    My family worked in Ford assembly plants from 2-years after Ford was founded, until they switched to GM, after WWII (and I am 3rd. generation GM).

    I will take their word over the internet, or your opinion, every day.

    Besides, your opinion is irrelevant here.

    This is a California law issue.

    Irrespective of what you believe Ford did, I know exactly what current law requires, and how to comply with it.

    Whether or not those laws line up with anyone else's opinions of ancient Ford history literally does not matter, in any case.
     
  18. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,899

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That only works if you have a recent title.

    If it is older, you get to have an inspection.

    They have been holding the line at telling my clients that if the paperwork is over 10-years-old, it needs an inspection.

    Now, if someone finds the frame that your numbers came from, and tries to title and registered a vehicle with it, they have legally acceptable evidence of ownership, and you don't.

    (And you're in Oregon, not California.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
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  19. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,899

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    All y'all can argue with me all you want.

    I am here trying to prevent you from having to argue with a cop, a lawyer, and a judge, all in that order.

    If you want to do something stupid, that's on you.
     
  20. If I was buying a Model A and found a repro frame with an original number stamped in I would walk away from the deal. If I was a police officer and stopped you for a minor violation (like a broken tail light) and found when I checked the registration that there was a repro frame and an original serial number I would have the car impounded. It is all a mater of luck, I am sure many people could not tell the difference.

    Charlie Stephens
     
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  21. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,242

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This all reminds me of a family member I have that will shop medical advice until they get an answer that they want, not what needs to be heard....
    The opinion, as an answer, doesn't change the facts of the situation;
    • The pink slip is fraudulent for the body
    • The body has value as parts
    Run away from the pink slip
    Consider the body for parts not as an avenue for anything else
    It totally amazes me that people will admit in a public forum that they have willfully broken federal law and encourage others to do so....
     
  22. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,793

    tfeverfred
    Member

    Well, in my Texas experiences with the DMV, I presented a title and forms filled out. Paid the fee and a few weeks later, I got a title in the mail. No one wanted to see the vehicles. The only inspections I've heard of were for out of state titles. California just seems a big PITA for owning an old car. Those inspectors must be real busy.... checking out all those cars.
     
  23. Pinball Wizard
    Joined: Jul 25, 2008
    Posts: 91

    Pinball Wizard
    Member


    You can do the same exact thing here in California if the title is in the system. The problem in the OP's case is he would then have the title to a car he doesn't possess.

    Chris
     
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  24. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,793

    tfeverfred
    Member

  25. Bikelessbill
    Joined: Oct 1, 2013
    Posts: 111

    Bikelessbill
    Member

     
  26. Bikelessbill
    Joined: Oct 1, 2013
    Posts: 111

    Bikelessbill
    Member

    What is the story on Briggs bodys ? Mine has a tag on firewall but there is nothing on it and have found no numbers so far. I got this body out of a field with no frame.
     
  27. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,899

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It is easy, if you are following the law.

    As for inspections, I do an average of 7 per month, and just vintage cars.

    Zero issues.

    Your state just has laws that allows you to do things that would be illegal in most other states.
     
  28. steves29
    Joined: Jan 19, 2010
    Posts: 194

    steves29
    Member

    Originally the registration was the engine number.
    The number may or may not have been stamped on the frame.
    Now imagine having an engine swap in say 1939.
    It was possible to have nothing match.

    Sent from my SM-J327W using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  29. proartguy
    Joined: Apr 13, 2009
    Posts: 467

    proartguy
    Member
    from Sparks, NV

    I guess the search function does not work as there have been many threads here on ford titles and numbers.

    I can tell you by experience that in some places the dmv will have you pull the body to verify the frame number.
     
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  30. I owned a '34 Ford for 30 years. I had a clean pink in my name, car had license plates that matched the pink. I drove it a few years, then tore it down for complete rebuild. It sat for many years before I decided to reassemble it. I went to DMV with all my stuff to license it and was told I had to get a serial number inspection. All this means no matter what you do with that pink slip, you will have to have an inspection and if you don't have a Model A engine in the car, with the matching number, you are dead in the water.
     

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