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Model A cowl lamps *HELP - Please*

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by joemac05, Jan 16, 2013.

  1. joemac05
    Joined: Jul 29, 2006
    Posts: 438

    joemac05
    Member

    I have just ordered cowl lamps for my 1928 model A tudor. It seems the mounting location and methology is some kind of mystery to be left up to my imagination. :confused::confused:

    So far I have figured out that they actually mount to some kind of brace I will have to fabricate inside of the cowl and just slip through a hole in the cowl itself. Anybody got any info, measurements, inside pictures of a proper installation anywhere? :D

    Many thanks for any help or direction.

    Regards
    -Joemac
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  2. joemac05
    Joined: Jul 29, 2006
    Posts: 438

    joemac05
    Member

    I just modified the title to indicate it was help I am looking for. Hoping cowl lamps are somebodies pet subject.
     
  3. i've seen that inside bracket in the Snyder's catalog... maybe if you got one it would locate the lamps for you?
     
  4. I don't know about Model A's but '32's have a spot on the inside of the cowl that has a slight circle indentation where to drill the holes,,at least the Fordor does. HRP
     

  5. 5window
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 9,516

    5window
    Member

    Check over on the Ford Barn-lot's of stock A experts over there.. You could also try calling someplace like Bratton's-they seem to know what the stuff in their catalog is used for.
     
  6. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

  7. joemac05
    Joined: Jul 29, 2006
    Posts: 438

    joemac05
    Member

    Yes that's what I'm hoping for....
     
  8. Fred A
    Joined: May 3, 2005
    Posts: 290

    Fred A
    Member
    from Encino, CA
    1. Upholstery

    There were only a couple of models that used the cowl lamps in '28-'29 and none was a Tudor. Most of those coming from Ford had a waaaay different cowl section and instructions would have done you little good. Most seen now were installed by someones grandpa in the sixties or seventies trying to make a fancier car than Fords ever were to impress the grandkids. In the last year of Model A production, Ford tried to jazz up the Model A to pump a sagging marked caused by the depression. Cowl lights were then included in several models. Good luck: Fred A
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  9. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,628

    The37Kid
    Member

    Fred is correct cowl lights were only offered on Fordor sedans and the Cabriolet in 1928-29, both of these bodies used a unique cowl that is totally different than a Tudor. Bob
     
  10. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    ...but Ford did offer these lights as a dealer accessory for the regular lines of cars and did publish instructions and presumably made bracketry. Pretty sure a look in the bulletins will do the job...
     
  11. 51 mercules
    Joined: Nov 29, 2008
    Posts: 3,868

    51 mercules
    Member

    My 29 Roadster had cowl lights and if I remember there was a block of wood on the inside of the cowl where they attached?I don't remember a bracket on mine.
     
  12. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I saw some instructions in the "How to restore your Model A" book I have. I don't have it with me so I can't check to see if it covered that model or was just for 30/31.
     
  13. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    "The Ford Service Bulletins for March 1929 announced that cowl lights were available for all Ford cars as a dealer option. List price was $10.50, plus $1.50 for installation. "
    Found that in a quick Fordbarn search. Naturally, I walked past a mountain of Service Bulletins last night and forgot to look. I think from memory that some instructions were provided as these were going on cars that never had them from the factory, and so needed drilling in the right place, wiring and switch different than cars with full factory harness for these, etc.
    Parts book shows cowl light set sold as a packeage, presumably for this purpose.
     
  14. BobF
    Joined: Dec 30, 2004
    Posts: 232

    BobF
    Member
    from Poway, CA

    I can't speak for the 28/29 but the 30/31 models used a wood block inside the cowl. I had a 30 4dr way back when and it had this arrangement, and the 31 vicky I still have has the original blocks of wood behind them.
     
  15. 51 mercules
    Joined: Nov 29, 2008
    Posts: 3,868

    51 mercules
    Member

    Thanks.I thought there was a block of wood there.
     
  16. joemac05
    Joined: Jul 29, 2006
    Posts: 438

    joemac05
    Member

    I appreciate the interest folks.As far as I can tell the wood blocks were used on 30-31 models. Someone is bound to stumble across the dealer accessory installation instructions sooner or later. Back in the early 60's when I was an appretice at a Chev, Olds, Cad dealership I spent many a day installiing dealer accessories from factory kits. Mostly Chevys. They would order them kinda stripped down then we could add the "factory" accessories as required. Radios, power steering and brakes, seat belts, floor mats, side mirrors .... you name it. That way we could kinda take a car from stock and tailor it to the customer. (Long as we had one the right colour) I'm sure the same was more or less true in the model A years. Every kit came with instructions and templates.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2013
  17. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Will try to remember to look in bulletins and see if there's info there...The repro parts for this MUST be readily available as there are LOTS of non original installations at Model A shows, and the original lights are quite scarce.
    If you want to get things moving, call Bratton's, as the phone clerk there is generally Mr. Bratton, who knows what's what.
     
  18. joemac05
    Joined: Jul 29, 2006
    Posts: 438

    joemac05
    Member

    Thanks Bruce. I have already ordered the lamps from a local supplier. Good price and no shipping cost.Being in Canada it's easy to spend more on shipping and taxes than the cost of the parts. I hate to bother another vendor for the instructions. They should be here sometime next week... The turn signals on the front of the car now are kinda hokey and I think these will look a little nicer, they have turn signals built in. Whenever I make hand signals these days people seem to think I'm just making obscene gestures. :) Everyone and their dog is selling these things in one form or another but none seem to bother with templates or diagrams.
     
  19. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    OK, Bulletins. The Bulletin in March 1929 was to get the dealers selling lights as accessories and to show them how, since 90% of the potential was sales to people with the normal cowl-post type 1928-9 body. Last night I couuld only find the repro Service bulletins, which are like 1/3 the size of real ones and have TINY illustrations...can't the repro people do ANYTHING that is an actual repro?? Instructions are for the normal Ford cowl with posts.
    Anyhow...the brace that is in all the catalogs (http://www.brattons.com/prodtype.as...ition=21&ph=&strKeywords=&&strSearchCriteria=) is I think just a sheet metal doubler, maybe meant to try to make the tin strong enogh to support the light without help...? Anyway, it seems to be a pure aftermarket part with no relationship to Ford instructions.
    The bracket shown in the bulletins in a microscopic picture is more what I remember...it is a bracket that bolts to inside of firewall at top of the lower part then goes bavk at ~90 degrees to give a solid angle iron mount fotr the light. I think it also has a tab bolting to one of the gas tank flange bolts. If you fab this, I would mke it ungusseted, bend until lights are pointed correctly (they look like absolute CRAP if angle is off) and then make final gusseting arrangements.
    I would say...call up Walt Bratton to see what he knows and maybe sells.
    The templates must be out there somewhere...lots of people have done this, obviously with repro tech. Maybe someone on the Barn can come up with a dimension...if you get the hole in the tin right, that will give you the plan for the bracket.
    Lamps with all fittings, templates, and hardware were A-13300 @ $10.00, but all the dealers seem to be on backorder...
     
  20. joemac05
    Joined: Jul 29, 2006
    Posts: 438

    joemac05
    Member

    I now have the necessary information at hand and shall submit photos of the installation after it is done. Now that I see how the reinforcing bracket actually mounts it makes sense to me and I have ordered a pair. As is usually the case it is a very simple and straight forward once you "see the light". :)
     
  21. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,628

    The37Kid
    Member

    This has been enlightening, I never knew that bracket existed untill the photo was posted over on the Ford Barn. Look forward to the photos and update. Bob
     
  22. joemac05
    Joined: Jul 29, 2006
    Posts: 438

    joemac05
    Member

    The job is done. As you can see from the image the lamp does NOT mount to the cowl panel itself but enters the body at an angle through a grommet. The reinforcement panel must be painted (it comes in bare metal) and installed first then the location is determined by the hole in the accessory panel itself. Proper locating is done from inside the car AFTER the reinforcement is installed. This is for 1928-29. 1930-31 is a totally different can of worms. If it were mounted directly to the outer side cowl panel it would point nowhere useful. Click on the image to enlarge.

    Cowl lamp bracket.jpg
     

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