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Hot Rods Model A body on ‘32 chassis WITH FENDERS- Help!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by RiffRaffRoadster, Dec 24, 2018.

  1. redoxide
    Joined: Jul 7, 2002
    Posts: 403

    redoxide
    Member
    from Scotland

    take what you have there. and improve it to your satisfaction, but retain the spirit of the original build.

    A 283 is period as is the chevy rear, a well used and established upgrade of the time which most likely puts your car in the 60s build era.. Right in the American Grafitti period :) Go watch the movie and get in the zone..

    Then have the new shop take the car to bits, clean up the original frame. Since the original X members are missing whats the problem adding either full or partial boxing and in keeping with the early build style use simple box section to fabricate replacement gearbox X member and a rear running K to stiffen things up just a wee bit .. and replace the rear X with something similar, or better still retro fit an early ford rear spring X member and have it tweeked to retain the stance.. A 40 rear X member would fit the bill. Just a lot tidier and properly welded :)

    Running gear. Well dude, its all there, why waste money and also loose the feel of the car your pops loved enough to make ithis..

    Keep the chevy rear, its pure nostalgia, just detail it .. and fit new brakes which will just be service items costing pennies.

    You got a decent box in it, detail it,. The motor runs, so dont go nuts, give it a full service, fit new contacts,plugs and filters ( maybee the early 283 doesnt have filters ? ) and fresh oil, all cheap and easy and it will let you know if the motor needs a rebuild before you go tearing it to bits to find out ..

    Fit a new master cylinder and as a wee upgrade and a knod to saftey fit a dual circuit one ..

    New king pins, bearings and brake parts on the front, and check the steering box for excess play, adjust it lube it and drive it .

    Detail the motor with period bits if it runs good and be done.. Remember, its a toy, its not a true daily and neither will it be if you choose to sink 50k into it .. it will sit in the garage just the same .. :) How fast can you go on the blacktop 30 40 50 60 and 70.. with your juvenile cap on you can do 70 in a 40, if you can handle the fines and suspensions :) so why the need for 200bhp ? seriously they can be fast enough with a banger motor in them lol..

    Its a shame the last shop blasted it .. but hey its done now . Best thing you done was rescue it from there grasp..

    Has great potential and for a minimal outlay you can have a safe period hot rod without ripping the heart and history out of it .. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  2. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 380

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    Thanks redo32. Good comments and good advice. I’m pretty new to all this and appreciate the viewpoints of this particular message board. Again-the plan and direction for this car will probably be a combination of the original style, my personal likes/dislikes, and the suggestions of the eventual builder (which I hope will be Rexrods or another shop that specializes in these cars). I’m confident that it will all work out for the best.


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  3. redoxide
    Joined: Jul 7, 2002
    Posts: 403

    redoxide
    Member
    from Scotland

    ref the old taillight position.. I wuldnt get to hung up on those details, the body was probably a component on several cars in its time.. From an original to a hot rod, then some young gun would have sold the body for $50 to his buddy who bolted it to another frame, He saw a tech feature in little pages and fitted 47 tail lights... then after bending the frame he junked the car and it was picked up by a new owner full of the beans, with a good set of Deuce rails fenders and no body, dropped on his find, filled the rear lamp holes, fired on some nitro cellulose and made it a chick magnet, They parked it up and after a while your pops bought it .. and now its your turn to make your mark on it .

    The rub is, whats your mindset, are you old school, do you believe these old cars have a soul, or is it just a body and parts to build a whole new car .. I always end up building mine from junk parts, Wish I could trip over something with provenance that was about in the hey days of hot rodding.. How cool would that be .
     
  4. 1-SHOT
    Joined: Sep 23, 2014
    Posts: 1,483

    1-SHOT
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If your are running fenders why pinch the frame, we never did we just used a wood strip and bolted it down.
    If you are going to build a 1-800-HOT-ROD just start with a new project. Restore what you have and sell it to finance your Dream , you probably will be $$$ ahead.
     
  5. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 867

    goldmountain

    Just use common sense. For instance, the cut out wheel wells. Fix them, even though that isn't "original". Safety upgrades like dual chamber master cylinder. I keep thinking that I saw another 31' roadster on deuce rails printed sideways in a "Hot Rod Pictorial" kind of magazine that was a metallic red color but the Alzheimer's gets in the way.
     
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  6. Yep Stogy - that's my uncle's roadster - the early pic fender-less is at the first Sacramento car show in 1950 running a flathead and no fenders but you can see the Duval type windshield he made for it. The black and white shot of it in front of my granpa's shop is when the Oldsmobile and Hydro was first put into it. The gold color shots of it was later with the hood blister for the Olds generator....the hubcaps are the same as the 1956 Hot Rod Annual pics - his Bonneville Lakester is also in that annual. Man I wish I could find it........ olds in uncles roadster.jpg
     
  7. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 12,170

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks for connecting the dots Stillrunners...this is why this place is kinda special...

    It is a beauty...

    I thought it may be as that combo is somewhat rare...and I hope someday you do find it.
     
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  8. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,507

    thirtytwo
    Member

    1B6FA747-BB92-4FA3-A5C0-448FCC99ACF4.png 0DD79985-1F3F-43FD-8C95-2DF8CE00CCE0.png Everyone is going to have an idea of what you should do with your car but loosely reading between the lines of things you wanted and the concerns you have for the way it drove ..

    It would have been neat all just to polish it up and do required maintenance , but since it is already ripped apart I would probably balance between restoration and changing a few things but keeping the over all vibe of the car your dad bought but making it more drivable and fairly bullet proof

    I would box the front and back put an x member in it, c-notches, rebuild the f-100 steering drop axle split bones, 40 spring 9” ladder bars and a 4spd , f-1 brakes or Lincoln, keep the 283 or maybe opt for a 327 with 2x4s , Vette valve covers, chrome reverse wheels and another set of Astro slots with some redline tires maybe
     
  9. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 380

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    Very reasonable suggestions


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  10. jimgoetz
    Joined: Sep 6, 2013
    Posts: 277

    jimgoetz
    Member

    Ok Riff here's the story of my car. It was built in the early 50's in New Mexico and was brought back east in about 54. It was sold once and was last titled in 1957 with a PA title. Somewhere along the line the hot 48 Merc flathead was removed and an Olds. was supposed to have been put in. I don't know if it ever ran with this set up but it sat outside behind a barn in PA for years. I got my hands on what was left of it in 1981. It was only a frame with the front suspension, locked up brake drums and steering, a 42 rear end with no gears or axles and what was left of the body. Also a copy of a Magazine with pictures of it in 1953.
    It wasn't a famous car or anything but must have been a pretty nice hot rod. I just wanted to build a hot rod out of it to drive and started to do what I would have done if I got it when I was in high school in the early 60's instead of the early 80's. That was use what I could of what was there and put in a V8 drive train for cheap and run with it. That ended up being a 71 Chevy 350 eng. and trans. and a 68 10bolt rear that I hung with the 32 spring .
    The car sat like that in my garage I'm embarrassed to say until I retired. When I finally start to work on it again I realized I had an awful lot of small details still left from the 1953 build. I didn't "restore" the car but just kept all of the things that I could. The car isn't really total traditional because of the too new of drive train and some repop parts and it could be a better driver with different brakes and steering etc. but I think it's still a cool HOT ROD. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't think there's anything wrong with improving what's wrong with it that's probably what your dad might have done, but I would also try to keep the same look as much as possible. Just please...……… nice shinny paint. No fake patina!
     

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    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
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  11. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 380

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    That is an amazing story and awesome car. We’re on the same page Jim.


    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  12. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 380

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    I hate that fake patina crap too.
     
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  13. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 380

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    1-shot: you mention making a Model A body fit onto a '32 frame by adding a wood strip instead of pinching the frame. Where are you referring to doing this? Attached is a photo of a Model A body on a '32 frame. How do you think this fits? Pinched or wood strip?
     

    Attached Files:

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  14. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 380

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    Saw this car on the internet by a fairly well known builder named Jack Stirnemann in MO. This is an original '30 Model A body on original Duece frame rails and is full-fendered (article said front fenders were modified to fit body/frame and rear fenders were 'bobbed'). This car was entered into the 2016 AMBR show.
    How would it be classified according to members of this message board? Looks like it has some modern upgrades.
     

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  15. big duece
    Joined: Jul 28, 2008
    Posts: 5,495

    big duece
    Member
    from kansas

    That is a very nice car! A few things I would change are way less gold on the kidney beans. A color more like true Dow7 and deep maroon paint would do it for me.
     
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  16. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 12,170

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That Hotrod you posted is channeled over a narrowed frame...I'm assuming...or they could have pie cut the cowl and slightly widened it...

    Keep in mind again, one your running fenders and the Pie cut frame or cowl is more a newer phenomenon than the plop on top and fill strips which is the traditional quick and dirty quite frankly more thank accepted method.

    Below are two threads on this topic...Page three of the second thread has a fellow putting strips in a traditional way as mention here and in the Old Bluey Tardel Book

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    :rolleyes:...Hamber @FourBangNCanuck's Hotrod with strips
    ...and note the strips at final install these are painted to match the frame

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/30-model-a-32-frame-dos-and-donts.613236/


    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/30-model-a-32-frame-dos-and-donts.613236/

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/model-a-on-deuce-rails.440495/

     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
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  17. VonWegener
    Joined: Nov 19, 2009
    Posts: 781

    VonWegener
    Member

    There are so many modifications to that car that it would take an extremely well healed enthusiast to copy it. It also has nothing to do with what we have been trying to tell you about old cars, tradition, originality etc.
    You always bring up these street rods and I think that is really what you want. I would suggest contacting Roy Brizio in South San Francisco to build you the car of your dreams.
    Unfortunately you could not reuse much of your dad's car so my suggestion would be to sell your car to a traditional enthusiast who will cherish it and the story behind it and send a blank check to Brizio. You will get a perfect absolutely beautiful car in return one that can get you trophies at the GoodGuys and NSRA shows.
    To sell your old car please use the HAMB classifieds to give traditional enthusiasts a shot at it.
     
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  18. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 380

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    don't read too much into it VonWegener - I was searching for this combo and it happened to be on a show car...
     
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  19. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,507

    thirtytwo
    Member

    He showing us pictures of cars he likes and that car looks pretty bitchin I’m sure he sees stance and presence , and the basic look of that car can be replicated with almost all the parts he already has with his car now, it’s just how you put them together , that look can be had without unisteer, Pete and jake , or crate motors believe it or not

    It’s already apart I see no reason to “save” it now ....might as well attend to all the arc welded torched brackets and clean them up... if it were still together I would say buff the paint and put fresh gas in it and go.... but it isn’t .. and now he’s here with a parts pile and a blasted body .... it isn’t what it was anymore... it is what it is ....
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  20. Gasolinefed
    Joined: Apr 17, 2018
    Posts: 104

    Gasolinefed
    Member
    from OR

    Looks like the rough ride is probably coming from the split bones in the rear.. they’re usually fixed At the rear mount point and create bind when the axle tries to articulate in the chassis..

    Keith might suggest a Pete and Jakes style ladder bar set up.. where as the same basic principles in design as the bones when the leading ends mount near the center line of the chassis reduces the problem..

    Split bone front share the same basic design as the rear but the axle is lively and will flex and allow the suspension to still perform..

    Also looks like the rear spring isn’t tensioned properly.. wrong spring for the perch seperation? Don’t know.. the shackles should be at a steeper angle with the body off..

    A trad setup can be made to ride decent with the right choices..

    Split bone rear is cool and I would’nt want to change the car but if you’re worried about ride that may be one concession to think about..
     
  21. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 380

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    Gasolinefed - I'm hoping Keith at Rexrods agrees to look at the car and give recommendations. Again - I'd like to keep it as period as possible but clean it up and improve the ride a little like you said. Thanks for the feedback on suspension.
     
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  22. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 380

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    I think this may be another one with similar setup...
     

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  23. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 380

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    BTW - Happy New Year everyone, and thanks to those of you who have provided suggestions and comments and liked this thread! It's been a hell of an education and I can't wait to get the project started!
     
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  24. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 12,170

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    [​IMG]

    If Stogy had got this...First I would look back to the pic of your Dads first eyes laid on it pic and the things I may consider upgrading at least externally would be remove original windshield, add a mildly chopped one in its place posts leaned back a bit, add a Period complimentary Top, adjust stance slightly (a bit lower in front reposition rear as others have noted) and remove headlight bar and add dropped one similar to sixties pics with the blown roadster, and change out the original style taillights for something period sixties also saving them for archive of history. I might consider wheel swap, perhaps chrome reverse with no caps and renew Bias Plys because there is no other new tire that compares (almost but not Yet...some will differ in opinion as with everything). Nerf style bumpers remain...Other later consideration would be given to a Louvered Hood and sides that could be ran 3 ways No Hood, Hood Only or Hood with sides and one more thing would be a possible addition of period multiple carbs other than bringing all other mechanicals to spec and Plates I'm done...;)

    Oh I almost forgot...I thought that was a wind-wing but I think its a rear view mirror on the left post...I think I'd get a different period setup going there as well...
    I just had a look @Deescott's Hotrod and his stance and wheel combo and Light position is cool too...Then @Dreddybear's tire/caps rock too...

    Not to forget @stillrunners uncles stunning roadster.

    What can I say but you will have to please your eyes and heart through it all...
    and it really isn't far off

    Just dreaming Riff...
    Oh by the way your a Lucky Guy...:D

     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  25. jimgoetz
    Joined: Sep 6, 2013
    Posts: 277

    jimgoetz
    Member

    Looks like Stogy's post #226 answers your wood strips question. On my roadster the bottom of the body was so bad that I actually jacked it outward and built a slight curve into the bottom to match up better with the 32 frame. Your body looks to be in real good shape so I would go with strips or just leave it the way it was.
     
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  26. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 12,170

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    @RiffRaffRoadster one thing to remember about this place is it is open to new builds but technically they are expected to be inspired or built to look like 1965 and down. I believe I have mentioned it already in discussion.

    I don't know how much exposure to the Hamb you have had...but I encourage you to look at the threads I have already shared as they are of the Vibe that is the Hamb...

    This thread below I was about five or less or a couple more as some squeak a little above 1965.

    What it clearly shows is a chunk of the 60s race scene and honestly it is an incredible thread and real Hotrod eye candy. It's an influence on the big picture.

    There is a street scene, a Bonneville scene and many others...but the thread below focuses on strip racing with some
    of them probably street driven...

    But you feel what is celebrated here and imitated here when you see it...

    One thing that is especially helpful is the large array of rim, tire and wheel combos that you could run...remember they don't have to match and that is also not to say the rims on there now aren't period correct...I believe they are...anyways Happy New Year and yes, this a lot to digest I know...have a look at the Hamb as outside the boundaries of period stray.

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/mckinstry-photo-collection.927529/
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
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  27. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 380

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    Stogy - someone mentioned that the steering wheel was a Cragar model, and the slot wheels may be as well. I'd like to go look at the car this weekend and see if I can ID some parts that would pinpoint the time of the build. I'm estimating it was in the mid-late 1960's. My reasoning (with a lot of assumptions)? The car has a 1957 Chevy drivetrain. I doubt someone scrapped a new '57 Chevy to cannibalize the parts out of it, so I'm assuming the builder did a 'pick and pull' kind of thing to get a 283 sbc, cast iron Powerglide tranny, and late '50s Chevy rear end from available yards of the day. This probably took us to early-to-mid '60s. When my Dad bought it in 1970, it came with a custom trailer. Both car and trailer were very new-looking. This could have been a recent re-fresh to try to sell it. who knows how/when the car got from SoCal to Amarillo during the '60s.
    I think this assumed provenance puts it on the ragged edge of the informal guidelines on this message board (pre-1965). Agree?
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
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  28. RiffRaffRoadster
    Joined: Dec 24, 2018
    Posts: 380

    RiffRaffRoadster
    Member

    Just looked through that thread - very cool. And, great, sharp color photos for that time period!
     
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  29. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 12,170

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yes I do...I am very careful to judge period as many times what your looking at is older than you think.

    Just remember your Hotrod may have looked near the way it does now in 1953 but had a Flathead V8, standard trans and Ford rear end.

    The fellas here I've mentioned and there are many more really do a lot to find the history of the evolution of their rides...some as you have seen find out later. The more you have the better chance of connecting dots.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
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  30. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 12,170

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

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