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Misunderstandings about Vintage Stock Car

Discussion in 'Questions & Suggestions' started by Lugs Harvey, Mar 21, 2011.

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  1. Lugs Harvey
    Joined: Feb 2, 2009
    Posts: 12

    Lugs Harvey
    Member

    The vintage stock car thread has been closed by metalshapes, as he feels it has gotten off topic.
    If you go back to the first post on 8-28-2008 when indybigjohn started that thread he said from the beginning of stock car racing thru about 1985 would be the time frame.
    If the time frame was too late for HAMB he along with the other contributors should have been advised much earlier than over two years later.
    I don't wish to flame metalshapes or anyone else on HAMB but I and as it seems many others enjoy the thread, as it has been going for all this time and don't feel the thread is off its intended time frame.
    Please add to this thread with your comments and please stay polite to all involved. :confused:
     
  2. KJSR
    Joined: Mar 7, 2008
    Posts: 2,488

    KJSR
    Member
    from Utah
    1. Utah HAMBers

    Isn't there a nascar or stockcar forum out there in the world? What about a private group so you guys post your off topic stuff?
     
  3. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,844

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    First off all, I'm dissapointed that nobody started a Thread about this in this Forum ( the Q & S Forum ) when that Thread was still open, because that could have prevented it from being Closed.

    I asked for it many times.


    About it being Off Topic.

    The HAMB is a Site for Traditional Hot Rods and Traditional Customs.

    Stock Cars themselfs are not Off Topic, but the Cut Off date on the HAMB is mid 60s.
    Acctually, its 1964 and earlyer, but because we let things slide more on the Main Board than what is possible in the Classifieds I usually just say mid '60s.

    That cut off date can be flexible for really rare cool and unusual stuff, but when a Thread gets filled with stuff that misses the mark by more than a decade its time to do something about it.

    All we ask for is a little respect for the Site you are on, and to me, that doesnt seem like a lot to ask...



    Hopefully, Users who are posting on other Pics Threads are paying attention too.
     
  4. kt
    Joined: Jun 22, 2010
    Posts: 41

    kt
    Member

    How sad......The only reason I ever visited the HAMB (and it's sponsors) was to see the content of two threads here, the '60-70's modified thread and the Historic Stockcar photo thread. I have never witnessed one complaint about the content on either thread, yet one is closed and the other is threatend to be....again, how sad........Out of the blue one day, a supposed moderator comes on and makes THREATS without introducing himself or explaining his position. He was just out and out RUDE about it........As others have stated, it is their site to do as they please.....This is true that it is their sandbox......It reminds me of some dimestore race officials that put a white shirt on, on Saturday nights, and think they are god's gift to the world...........I for one won't be visiting the HAMB anymore whether they come up with a fair resolution or not....................kt

    THANK YOU to everyone that was so KIND to post their pictures here to begin with.

    so sad........................
     

  5. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,844

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    If you truely are a racer you are used to the fact that you have to show up with the right car, built to the right specs, to be able to enter a race.


    If you see things in those terms, maybe its easier to understand....
     
  6. slammed
    Joined: Jun 10, 2004
    Posts: 8,151

    slammed
    Member

    FNG's seemed to find it harder to understand the criteria of the board. The last 2-2 1/2 year's esp.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2011
  7. kt
    Joined: Jun 22, 2010
    Posts: 41

    kt
    Member

    Metalshapes, thanks for the quick response. Yes, I truly am a racer and no, my knuckles do not drag on the ground......Thanks for attempting to "dumb it down" for me but my comprehension is just fine, thank you. If you re-read my post, maybe it would dawn on you that my complaint is not about the content of what you are saying, but the way you presented it. Perhaps you were too busy thumping your chest to understand it. I have already acknowledged that it is your site to do with as you please. As a moderator, you represent the HAMB and I would have thought you would choose your words a little more carefully............These thoughts are my own and I hope that I have put them in the right form and spot on the HAMB as to not have another thread closed down. There are people that are kind enough to have posted on those threads for YEARS without interuption. I thank them again for their efforts. I would not want to be the one that brought the house down by having the audacity to question your authority.......Thank you for allowing me to post here.................kt
     
  8. fogs58
    Joined: Jan 14, 2011
    Posts: 135

    fogs58
    Member
    from ooo

    I really hated to see the historic stock car thread get locked down myself. I lurked at it for a long time. The first wedge LM that showed up on it I knew it was in trouble. Before everyone yells at the mods think of it this way. They dont beat you to death with pop ups and flashing banners. I assume with my small knowledge of the net all this bandwidth being used costs the site owner money. So since the site is about traditional hot rods and customs they dont have to accept any of that stuff if they dont want to regardless of how much everyone looks at it. I enjoy alot of the different things on this site but I also understand what they are trying to do. I go to a lot of other sites also since I'm in early retirement and I dont think a vintage drag race site would want a bunch dirt track stockcars posted on it either. I guess what my old dumbazz is saying is , just respect the site for what it is.
     
  9. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,844

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    Kt.

    Going by your last posts, you must have my position as a Mod confused with one of power.

    There is none.

    I always looked at it as a job like a janitor.


    The HAMB is owned by one guy, Ryan.

    He sets the rules.

    And he has 9 of his buddies helping him out as Mods.

    I'm one of them.

    We are volunteers.


    I will not appologise for my actions as a Mod.
    But if my delivery is too direct, that is something I can work on.

    Although... When I asked for things to be brought back On Topic, and for the Discussion to please be moved to the Q & S Forum, I was simply ignored.

    So you will have to do your part as well...
     
  10. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,844

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    And, BTW, if the Stock Car Thread can stay On Topic from here on out,

    I'd be happy to open it back up.


    Let me know if that is possible.

    The last Poster on that Thread, before I closed it, basically said there just aren't enough early pics around to keep a Thread like that going.
     
  11. Tricknology
    Joined: Mar 9, 2006
    Posts: 546

    Tricknology
    Member
    from DETROIT

    this is how you informed us,,, no warning,,,just a big threat,,, we apologised we were polite,,,and some did ask some quesstions and no posted any pics that were not 1960's stuff,,,yet you still closed down the thread...

    Why??? hundreds of posters and you close it down because someone asked You a question??

    [​IMG] 03-17-2011, 09:08 PM #4890 metalshapes
    Alliance Member

    [​IMG]

    Join Date: Nov 2002
    Location: Tucson, AZ USA
    Posts: 8,999


    [​IMG] Re: Historic Stock Car Photos
    There is so much Off Topic, Latemodel stuff on this Thread that I'm not even going to try and clean it up.

    So instead, the next Off Topic car on this Thread will Close it...
    __________________


     
  12. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,844

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    Yep...

    I just did not realise so many people could be unaware that '80s cars are not On Topic or welcome on the HAMB.
     
  13. 50dodge4x4
    Joined: Aug 7, 2004
    Posts: 3,535

    50dodge4x4
    Member

    I just knew that thread was going to go down hill fast.

    Metalshapes, I appreciate the things you guys do on the HAMB. I know I would not want to do the things you guys do to keep things on the up and up around here.

    That said, I believe when you first commented on the thread, you should have identified your self as a moderator before you made any other comment. After that, I believe you could have explained the HAMB layout to everyone that posted on the thread, including what the moderators do. Many of the guys that were posting on the Stock Car thread were new guys that arrived on the HAMB by means of a Google search, with little or no understanding of the HAMB layout. They came here for the stock car post, or the modified post, or the drag racing post, or one of the other big picture posts that turn up in a Google search, and have no interest in anything else here.

    For all most of them knew, some guy that had no clue about stock car racing was all of a sudden trying to limit their fun, especially when it was originally posted as a 60s & 70s stock car thread that had been running uninterrupted for over 2 years, its a bit frustrating resending the dates back to the mid 60s so long after the fact. I understand you are simply trying to bring these picture threads back under the HAMB guidelines. I doubt most of the guys posting on these threads would not have an issue if everything would have been laid out for them with an explanation. You have to approach these things with the understanding some of the people posting have no clue about the HAMB, which I tried to do, too long after the fact. Hopefully you will handle the changes on the other posts with more explanation and clarity then you did on the stock car post. Beyond that there will always be those inconsiderate asses that will bitch regardless of what was posted. I suggest the HAMB would be better served by banning the individuals that don't get the message after it has been properly explained.

    As far as not having any new pictures of HAMB topic stock cars, I believe there are plenty more pictures out there, its simply a matter of the people with the pictures finding a place to post them, and figuring out how to post them.

    The Dogfight site is light years behind the HAMB in visual appearance. Reality tells me that should probably be the place for the stock car thread to continue, but without all the already posted pictures moving along with the thread, and a direct link from here to there, I doubt it would live long. There are many HAMB guys like myself that might not migrate to that site to look at just one thread.

    I would like to see the stock car thread reopened, with specific no doubt rules about what can and what can not be posted. You could go back through the last 10 pages or so and put in red print pictures that are considered "OFF TOPIC" and inform posters that causing drama will get the offenders banned. Let the post live or die on its own picture content. Gene
     
  14. Dreddybear
    Joined: Mar 31, 2007
    Posts: 6,041

    Dreddybear
    Member

    This makes me sick. Guys like Metalshapes and Rashy and Corncob, etc.. volunteer literally hundreds of hours of their time to help keep the best TRADITIONAL hot rod forum on topic and clean. They could be building in their garage during this time but they recognize a need and fill it, Admirably. They have dozens of dudes giving them crap EVERY DAY about inane bullshit for various reasons. He is simply a moderator doing what he was asked to do. Cut him some slack. The threads went off track and he cut it off. It's done.
     
  15. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,844

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    Thanks Gene.

    Mistakes were made...

    We didnt catch the request for up to '85 pics then the Thread was new.

    I didnt realise, when I discovered it, that a '80s subculture had grown within the HAMB by Users that did not take the trouble to familiarise themselfs with the site.

    If I had gone back more that the 5 or 7 pages that I did, I might have realised that.

    But as it happened that only became clear to me when the responces of the Users on that Thread came.

    If I had realised that I might have worded it differently, but the content still would have had to go to being On Topic.


    I thought it was clear that I'm a Mod.

    My Username shows up in a different color, and at the bottom of the 1st page there is a section "Forum Leaders".
    I'm in there.

    The Dogfight is a brand new site, it will need time to grow.

    I'm not telling anybody to go there.
    But if you want to, its available to post performance related stuff that would be Off Topic here.

    I would like to see the Stock Car Thread reopened too, and I will if it can stay On Topic.

    Please let me know.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2011
  16. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,844

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    .... And I dont see what the Users on the Oval Track Thread are upset about.

    I havent done much as a Mod there yet.


    That Thread is not in trouble.

    Just hold back a bit on the Pinto's, Vega's, and Arrows etc., and it will be fine.

    Unless that Thread will get stuck in the Drama too.

    That will kill it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2011
  17. hammer bowling
    Joined: Apr 1, 2010
    Posts: 90

    hammer bowling
    Member

    I don't see what fathers, mothers or kids dying has to do with Rods but those threads still happen. Be fair across the board. Just sayin.
     
  18. corncobcoupe
    Joined: May 26, 2001
    Posts: 5,970

    corncobcoupe
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member


    Fair = posting topics of Traditonal Hot Rods and Customs and a post here and there out of respect for a fellow HAMB Member Dieing or there kids ( which we monitor closely and make sure it doesn't get too off track)

    Everything else won't be fair so why even try ? If you are that unsure, send a Private message to a Moderator first to see if it fits the topic. It is at the decision of the Moderator ( final decision Ryan's if it is in question). That's the way it is and Moderators have a complete understanding of what Ryan's website is all about.

    Some guys seem to take it upon themselves to post off topic stuff and then bitch when it gets deleted wondering why we don't allow it and then see if they can stir up shit.
    If it got deleted - it didn't fit the HAMB.
    Pretty simple for most. It's the 2% that take effort to educate.

    "just sayin"


    Power trip ? NO !

    Just consider me a On Topic organizer to help keep the wed site I enjoy, stay the web site I enjoy.

    Cob
    Moderator
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2011
  19. kt
    Joined: Jun 22, 2010
    Posts: 41

    kt
    Member

    Thanks to metalshapes for doing a thankless job.

    Thanks to Gene for taking the time to write what I was trying to say without the dripping sarcasm.

    No need to hash out anymore of this. I would like to point out that for every poster on the HAMB there are hundreds of us f-n-g lurkers out there enjoying the content. To shut down a thread not only deprives us but disrespects the thousands of posts that were made ON topic.

    Metalshapes, it is your call on reopening the thread. Take the time to better explain the HAMB's position. As Gene pointed out, there will always be some that will b*tch no matter what and you might have to weed a few out. Still a much better solution than shutting down the thread entirely.

    Again thank you for all you do and for considering reopening of the thread.......kt
     
  20. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,844

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    Its Open...

    It will be the responsibilltity of the Users on it to keep it On Topic.

    And I hope that anybody who hasn't done it yet, will

    Fill out their profile,

    Do an Intro,

    Read this First http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44274

    And familiarise themselfs with the site they are on.


    That should prevent a lot of confusion...
     
  21. roundvalley
    Joined: Apr 10, 2005
    Posts: 1,774

    roundvalley
    Member

    Hey METALSHAPES, could you put Classifieds Moderator under your name like Cob?
    You do a great job but it took me awhile to know that you were a moderator in the past.
     
  22. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,844

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    That is up to Ryan...

    Personally I dont care what it says, FNG would be fine with me too. :D

    It said Editor for a couple years but I think that went away when I became an Alliance Member.
    ( or maybe it was earlyer, not sure. like I said... I dont care that much about Titles.)
     
  23. MissPrint
    Joined: Sep 11, 2008
    Posts: 760

    MissPrint
    Member

    You can also tell that a Moderator is a Moderator, as their names are in Blue. Alliance Members in Red, and "regular" members in Black. :)
     
  24. 50dodge4x4
    Joined: Aug 7, 2004
    Posts: 3,535

    50dodge4x4
    Member


    Since the Modified thread is not in trouble, it might stop any issues before they turn ugly, if you simply go on the thread and explain whats up.
    1) You should identify yourself as a moderator, so there is no question.
    2) Explain the thread is not in trouble, but you are monitering it.
    3) Take a few minutes to copy 3 pictures, one of what is what you like to see, one of what is acceptable, but at the limits, and one that is beyond the scope of the HAMB. Make sure you state the pictures are only examples of what is acceptable and does not have anything to do with the person that posted the pictures.
    4) Tell them where they can go (and how to get there) to get clarification on any questions or post comments. Tell them the threads are not the place for debate on anything.

    Most of the issues I see on the HAMB are from people not understanding where the line between being acceptable and not being acceptable lays, and taking closed threads or warnings as a personal attack. Often when someone feels they have been attacked, they go on attack. As moderators, you also need to understand responses from most people are not personal attacks on you, but a response from a person feeling attacked. A little extra understanding from the moderators goes long ways towards understanding. At the same time having been attacked by posters several times a day can wear a person pretty thin, and I have witnessed you guys taking far more then I could have.

    I know you guys and most of the HAMB members understand what this board is all about, but to presume everyone that comes here has that same understanding is inaccurate. Sometimes a simply explanation (more then telling them something is not traditional or is off topic) will solve a lot of problems. Also pointing them to a location they can go (and how to get there) to have questions answered would avoid the inevitable rant about "why was my post deleted?" that usually follows a post closing.

    Again, these are simply suggestions, I deal with people daily that usually have no idea how things work. I figure if I don't at least try to explain things, they will never understand. I know that explaining does not mean anyone will still get the message, but I still think I need to make an attempt.

    Again, you guys are doing a great job moderating this board and its not something I would want to do, but sometimes I think you could explain some things a bit better.

    Thanks for reopening the post. Gene
     
  25. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,844

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    Gene.

    The Quote you just posted has also been copied and pasted by a User on the Oval Thread.

    So they have the Information they need...
     
  26. 50dodge4x4
    Joined: Aug 7, 2004
    Posts: 3,535

    50dodge4x4
    Member

    Thank you. Gene
     
  27. Falconred
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 872

    Falconred
    Member

    Thanks for reopening, I was (rightly) chastised on the Drag Cars in Motion thread for basically the same problem and after the site rules and purpose was explained to me I understood why. I should have seen this coming earlier in the Stock Car site.

    Most canoeing forums don't allow jet boats nor do classical music forums have articles on heavy metal and synthesizers.
     
  28. Never2low
    Joined: Jan 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,149

    Never2low
    Member

    WORD!
    I've been missing the old (smaller) HAMB, lately.:(
    Less resorces and info, but so much less bullshit to sort through.
    Keep up the good fight Mods, what you do is improtant and does not go unappreciated. Thanks for all your hard work. Without it I probably would have lost intrest here years ago...:cool:
     
  29. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,844

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

  30. bumpnrun
    Joined: Nov 25, 2010
    Posts: 47

    bumpnrun
    Member

    Ive never been to any Drag Racing thread....Ive never been to any Modified thread.....If I was the Hamb Id be honored to have some of these guys posting on my site....WOW!....I could very much see this thread becoming an important resource for the History of Stock Car Racing....who knows who we could get to post on this thread if it was allowed to run.....too bad this thread is kind of spoiled with only one person complaining.....if there is a better site for the History of Stock car Racing let me know.....Dogfight???....theres nobody there
     
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