Register now to get rid of these ads!

Projects Mild custom '51 Pontiac Chieftain

Discussion in 'Traditional Customs' started by PhilA, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 2,620

    bchctybob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    A few months back I went looking for my brake "spoon" and couldn't find it. My custom bent screwdriver didn't fit in the space either so I added "Brake Spoon" to my swap meet shopping list. Our regular tool guy had four of them, each slightly different, at a couple bucks apiece, I bought all four. Now I can adjust no matter what is in the way!
     
    chryslerfan55, loudbang and PhilA like this.
  2. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 5,307

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't know any "car guy" in my crowd that doesn't have at least 4 brake adjusting tools in their toolbox. As far as I know, I'm the only one that has a car without self-adjusting or disk brakes.
     
    Chavezk21 and loudbang like this.
  3. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 863

    PhilA
    Member

    First car I've had with manual drums all round, so I'm still working on gathering tools. All the rest of my cars I've never had to routinely adjust (all self adjusting) and taking them apart a screwdriver was what I'd use.

    Phil
     
    chryslerfan55 and loudbang like this.
  4. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 863

    PhilA
    Member

    20191125_154534.jpg
    Sidetrack from brakes for a moment for SHINY NEW THINGS.

    Hopefully that remedies the misfire. Going to go see right now.

    Phil
     
  5. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 863

    PhilA
    Member

    Nope, but the old cap was a bit beyond it.

    Wires are probably shorting out between each other.

    Phil
     
    chryslerfan55 and loudbang like this.
  6. Johnboy34
    Joined: Jul 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,325

    Johnboy34
    Member
    from Seattle,Wa

    At least you'll get another 50 years out of the new shiny one,

    Sent from my SM-G973U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    chryslerfan55, loudbang and PhilA like this.
  7. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 863

    PhilA
    Member

    20191125_161310.jpg
    Refitted the anchor locknut. It looks out of place. Worry not about the wetness, that was releasing oil trying to get the thing undone.

    20191125_175345.jpg
    Leading shoe touching, trailing shoe 0.015"
    Tightened up, that'll do

    Ordered a rotor arm, it's gotta be tracking off the back of this one- checking with strobe light shows 8 and 1 sparking simultaneously- they are opposite each other on the cap and that's about the only way that can happen. I pulled #1 wire out of the wiring bundle and set it aside so it's not jumping across wires (turned the lights out and looked for arcing).

    It'll run, eventually. I have a source for a twin-points setup that fits this distributor, which should help, given how busted up this one is.

    Phil
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
    chryslerfan55, Okie Pete and loudbang like this.
  8. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 863

    PhilA
    Member

    Well, there we go. Chalk that one up to ignoring my own advice.

    New does not necessarily mean "any damn good".

    I replaced one of the spark plugs because it was the wrong type. I fitted a brand new Delco R45 from the store.

    20191125_205833.jpg

    So, I moved the plug from 8 to 6- firing order has 6 next to 1 and 8 directly opposite. Went from fubbafubbafubba to frubfrubfrub on the misfire. Damn. Pulled the plug and set it on the head wedged in against a head bolt. Cranked the engine. Lovely set of sparks from the body of the plug to the head bolt. None jumping the gap of the plug. Cleaned and gapped plug. Same result. Might as well just fit a bolt in the plug hole.

    Removing it and fitting the only thing I had spare (heck knows where the other plug went) which was an NGK BPR6ES, screwed in 2/3 the way because it has a much longer set of threads...

    Running sweetly on all 8.

    Ugh. Well, I know what the problem is now. Crappy new parts.

    Phil
     
  9. Lerenzo Rawson
    Joined: Jul 9, 2019
    Posts: 107

    Lerenzo Rawson
    Member

    Glad you got it running at least. When all else fails, try the wrong part!

    Sent from my cp3705A using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    loudbang and PhilA like this.
  10. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 863

    PhilA
    Member

    Well, I substituted the spark plug from my lawn mower and it improved things a little until it warmed up.

    Measured top cap to ground on the other one and I get about 95kOhm. That'll definitely be a problem.

    I think I'll get a new set of plugs.

    Phil
     
  11. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 25,483

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    why it is called test & tune
     
    loudbang and PhilA like this.
  12. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 863

    PhilA
    Member

    I think I need to redo the valve adjustment. Either they're tightening up a lot when hot or sticking open. Or both.

    Phil
     
    chryslerfan55 and loudbang like this.
  13. Phil, a little marvel Mystery oil in the gas tank might help those old valves.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  14. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 863

    PhilA
    Member

    My neighbor stopped by as I had the car in the driveway (pulled it out of the garage to try prevent gassing myself) and said the same thing.

    So I walked to the garage and poured a good half cup down the carburetor with it idling. Twisted the throttle open. That's a good cure for mosquitoes.

    Didn't help the valves much


    Phil
     
    chryslerfan55, loudbang and Okie Pete like this.
  15. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 863

    PhilA
    Member

    Yup. Let it cool off and I'm presented with sticky valves.



    I have reached the point of no return. I think we've all been there at some time or another- some people it prompts them to sell the car, some to lock the car away and never touch it again, others send it to the scrapyard.
    I'm to the point where I don't trust a single thing done by anybody else on the car.
    I need to pull the valves and lifters, polish the stems, inspect the lifters, check the guides.
    I also had a "nah, they wouldn't have" moment before but not all the oversize stamps on the piston crowns face the same way- I don't know if the pistons are sided or if they were all stamped on the same way anyway. All the ones I have fitted before go with a mark indicating the front of the engine.

    It's a pain but that's life. It ran fine when stone cold and then started to act up once it was warm.

    Phil
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
    chryslerfan55, loudbang and Okie Pete like this.
  16. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 3,215

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You're making me feel like i don't pay enough attention to my nuts Phil!! You're meticulous brother, great job. How close are you to Zachary Louisiana?
     
    loudbang and PhilA like this.
  17. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 863

    PhilA
    Member

    Thanks. This is just a story of trying to make good, hoping the bits that work stay working and ending up having to take it all apart to go back over what's been done.

    I'm about 90 miles away from Zachary, I'm way down by the coast.

    Phil
     
    chryslerfan55 and loudbang like this.
  18. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 3,215

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've got a buddy that lives in Zachary, works for Baton Rouge fire department. Plan on going down there one of these days to hog hunt.
     
    chryslerfan55, loudbang and PhilA like this.
  19. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 863

    PhilA
    Member

    Now's the time of year to go visit. It's not bad out that way. Lotsa trees. They like their hog roasts up there, you'll have a grande boucherie.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
    chryslerfan55 and loudbang like this.
  20. I normally treat the gas with MMO. Never poured it in the carb before. With each tank pour in as an additive. Over a period of time it is suppose to do it's job. I would be concerned with those piston markers as well. You have done such a great job on the old Indian guess you should leave no stone unturned so to speak. Surely a apin to pull that block apart but then you will have the answers you are looking for:rolleyes:
     
    chryslerfan55, loudbang and PhilA like this.
  21. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 863

    PhilA
    Member

    Yeah. Cold, changing the plug remedied the trouble. Once it warmed up the valves decided to stick. I think I know why, so lifting them out and cleaning should see them good again.

    MMO will help intake valves- a burst down the intake can sometimes clear off unhappy valves by giving them a coating but normally all it does it makes a smokescreen. It was just more for giggles because hearing the valves stuck was annoying me.

    One fun thing after another, but hey. Once it's all done it should be a little more reliable.

    Phil
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
    chryslerfan55 and loudbang like this.
  22. Normant93
    Joined: Apr 23, 2009
    Posts: 147

    Normant93
    Member

    Hey Phil, just read through this entire thread and thoroughly enjoyed it, I think you've redefined the term "detail oriented" !
    You've done an amazing job of bringing the car and it's various components back to life.
    I went through some of the same process over the last year or so getting my Dad's 53 Catalina back to roadworthy, it was not really used since about 1985. He would start it and drive it around the yard some, but mostly cleaned and polished it. For him it was a piece of art to be preserved more than a car to be driven. I've put about 1300 miles on it in the last year, I'm not sure if he would be happy I'm using it so much or horrified, either way it was his favorite car so I really enjoy having it.
    Sorry to go off on a tangent...…. back to your thread.
    I have quite a stash (thanks Dad) of NOS parts that fit 49-54 Pontiacs so let me know if there is anything you need and can't find locally.
    When I first got the 53 running, the valves were sticking some and it smoked quite a bit. Once I got it on the road and drove it around town a bit it all seemed to clear up, it seems the more I drive it the better it runs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  23. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 863

    PhilA
    Member

    I was hoping this would clear up but it got worse.

    The previous keeper's mechanic decided to remove the rearmost manifold stud to give better access removing the manifold with the engine in the car.
    They replaced it with a bolt, which would be ok except the hole it goes into isn't blind and opens up into the water jacket.
    The PKM evidently had problems with said stud because the block face wasn't flat (needed filing down) around the stud hole, indicating the manifold had been twisted outward with it still attached. Thus, the coolant had leaked part the threads, past the gasket and had filled up the exhaust port. Cue sticky valve #1.

    I had the engine sat on the floor for 6 months over summer in the garage. I had put duct tape over the ports because I had the manifolds removed. Mostly to stop bugs getting in and making nests in the ports- mud daubers love little quiet spaces like that.
    Well, despite that the summer humidity (it gets drier in wintertime here) I pulled the tape off and on one port particularly was greeted with a gush of water.

    So yeah. Storage plus idiots plus me being hopeful it would clear. At least cold it ran nicely.

    So, clean the valves, clean the guides, lap the seats in and reset the clearances and it should be good again.

    Phil
     
  24. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 863

    PhilA
    Member

    Well, today has had a perk.

    20191127_112655.jpg
    This arrived in the mail courtesy of another HAMB'er. Interior light bezel and lens!

    20191127_113333.jpg
    I couldn't resist going reconnect the battery and putting it in place at lunch.

    Looks sharp. Apart from the carpet on the back shelf below the window, that finishes tidying up the interior.

    Thank you!

    Phil
     
  25. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 863

    PhilA
    Member

    Another box arrived! It must be the holidays.

    20191127_163615.jpg
    It's a big box, too. I wonder what's in it.

    20191127_163728.jpg
    Oh. A single, small electronic component.
    Efficient packaging there.

    That's hopefully the piece that'll fix my alternator.
    I started the car up after charging the battery. Now it runs like a bag of smashed crap. Oh well. I guess it is time to pull the valves. I may see about making a tool to fit.

    Bought a 15/16" half-inch drive socket and returned the one I had borrowed to my neighbor.

    4 days off now, might be able to get something done.

    Phil
     
  26. David Gersic
    Joined: Feb 15, 2015
    Posts: 2,296

    David Gersic
    Member
    from DeKalb, IL

    I do hobby repairs for other people. One maxim I live by is to always suspect previous work. First thing I do is check to see what has been done before it got here, then check to see how badly the previous idiot screwed it up.



    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    chryslerfan55, PhilA and loudbang like this.
  27. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 863

    PhilA
    Member

    Well, I had seen a few of the things done and that the engine ran ok, I was hoping I could at least trust that much.

    Nope.

    Eventually I might even get to drive it somewhere.
    That would be nice.

    Phil
     
  28. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 863

    PhilA
    Member

    20191129_150325.jpg
    Rotor arm arrived. Fitted that, no real improvement, as expected. Cranking over with the air filter removed the choke wobbles and snaps. The valves aren't doing everything they should for sure.

    20191129_152708.jpg
    Removed the old diode trio from the alternator and fitted the new one.

    20191129_164630.jpg
    Spun it over to 1500 rpm and nada. Regulator pack gonna be bad then. Cleaned up the slip rings, the regulator pack popped open which is a bad sign. I guess someone connected it all up backwards or shorted it out at some point.

    I'll get another regulator. If that falls I'll see about getting another 10SI. Gonna keep with this model because I know it fits and I now have spares...

    Phil
     
  29. greybeard360
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,535

    greybeard360
    Member

    I bought a 50 Pontiac years ago that had sat for over 30 years. Pulled the plugs and poured mmo in the cylinders. Rebuilt the carb, replaced fuel pump and started turning the motor by hand, then the starter. Once it was spinning nice and free I hooked up the pump to a gas can and put the plugs back in. It fired right up! It ran pretty good on 6 of the 8 cylinders... Had two valves stuck open. I pulled the plugs and squirted mmo onto the valve stem.... Beauty of a flathead... Then went thru the spark plug hole and gently tapped on the valves to knock them down. Sin the motor over and repeat until the mmo worked its way down the guides and they stopped sticking. Ran like a watch.... Until it got warmed up real good. That's when the oil pressure would go away and you could hear a rod bearing rattling away. I traded it to a guy that just had to have it for a 60 Merc.
     
    chryslerfan55 and loudbang like this.
  30. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 863

    PhilA
    Member

    I guess I could try a bit of Marvelous Misery Oil on the stems through the plug holes first.

    Phil
     
    loudbang likes this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.