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Projects Mild custom '51 Pontiac Chieftain

Discussion in 'Traditional Customs' started by PhilA, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. Slopok
    Joined: Jan 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,805

    Slopok
    Member

    Was just a thought! :(
     
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  2. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 1,719

    PhilA
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    And a most valid thought, too. Gen-yoo-wine Eye-talian tune up!

    I gave the car a run today at speed but all that did was seemingly loosen up my points because it's now got a misfire. I'll pop the lid on it tomorrow, clean and reset them.
     
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  3. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 1,719

    PhilA
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    102 miles so far today. Getting an intermittent misfire which is ignition related because the tach jumps. Disconnected tach, problem persists.
    20221026_145906.jpg
    Funny really. It's driving better now, before I was being too gentle on it during shakedown.

    Next on the to-do is diff oil seals...
     
  4. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 1,719

    PhilA
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    Well, woud'cha know it.

    Recall I've been occasionally moaning about intermittent ignition problems?

    I found the problem.




    Ignition switch.
     
  5. 4 pedals
    Joined: Oct 8, 2009
    Posts: 894

    4 pedals
    Member
    from Nor Cal

    Yup. That's the way it goes.

    Devin
     
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  6. So did you switch the switch?
     
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  7. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 1,719

    PhilA
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    No, but I did repair it.

    20221028_084237.jpg
    The terminals were burned and dirty.
    20221028_084230.jpg
    The slider was not great either.
    20221028_085430.jpg
    Zealous application of cleaning and polishing compounds led to a suitable contact surface again.
    20221028_085511.jpg
    A little bit of dielectric grease to help prevent it going bad again.
    20221028_090821.jpg
    Now, no matter where in the arc that is "on", the switch provides good contact.

    Hopefully that'll make it run better for a while yet.

    Phil
     
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  8. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 1,719

    PhilA
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    Just went on a test run to the store and back.

    Better. Now to readjust the timing and dwell because I was messing about with that to try see what was what.
     
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  9. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 1,719

    PhilA
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Sixteen thou', check.
    Check again.

    20221028_173240.jpg
    I think the distributor might need to come apart again. Something isn't quite right.

    Phil
     
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  10. Just think about how many thousands of times that thing must have been turned in its lifetime!
     
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  11. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 1,719

    PhilA
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    If you average a trip to 20 miles, close to 6000 times.
    Sadly that's not the original key switch, but it's got a fair bit of wear to it, you can see the groove.
     
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  12. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 1,719

    PhilA
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    Just thinking, probably could do with checking the timing chain and gears.

    Might be that causing the timing to suck.
     
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  13. A lot of ignition switch wear is caused by keyrings that contain every key the driver owns! Those switches were not designed to resist the gravity of 2.5 pounds of keys!
     
  14. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 1,719

    PhilA
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    Yeah, I have a pleather keyfob and 3 keys on it. About design spec.
     
  15. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,244

    tubman
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    I have a separate fob with the keys for each car I own for this very reason.
     
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  16. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 1,719

    PhilA
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have gone in the direction opposite to HAMB's general thesis.
    20221106_170755.jpg
    I have added a second muffler. A second 24" cherry bomb in series.

    Makes a fair bit of difference- reason being was the single one was headache-inducing drone at 55. So, now the bass note remains but it's less like a low flying aircraft.

    I can deal with that.
     
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  17. That much added restriction will probably add about 1.5 seconds to your 0-60 time.... from 26 seconds to 27.5 seconds....LOL! Actually makes sense.... some of the BOP's of that era had a drone that would either put you to sleep or turn you into a raving maniac.
     
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  18. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 1,719

    PhilA
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    They're both straight through mufflers (the $27 off the shelf one at AutoZone), so not a real amount of restriction. The exhaust is larger diameter than stock so that should make up for it.
     
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  19. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 1,719

    PhilA
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    Doesn't sound too bad, admittedly. Still got that flathead note.
     
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  20. Now you can hear the radio!
     
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  21. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 1,719

    PhilA
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    Had a near breakdown today, the car started to spit and buck and cut out.
    It's been acting weird for a while but not bad enough to worry about. My gut feeling was something flashing over inside the distributor cap.
    The tach was flicking, which is usually indicative of a low tension issue, but overall that didn't really follow the stutter.
    Coupled with that, if I bypassed the coil ballast resistor, the symptoms got a lot worse (the HV is increased so more likely to find a fault).
    So, to check, I dragged my scope outside.
    20221113_182124.jpg
    Connected up a 10:1 probe to the CB side of the coil and started to eyeball the traces.
    20221113_210306.jpg
    Quite a lot look like this- the trigger is not on a specific cylinder so which one is good and which is a fault- unknown. But, that's a reasonable spark trace, a HV spike, a slight oscillation then a nice spark discharge curve then it mostly blows out cleanly and then the coil rings as it extinguishes. Wire/plug resistance is a touch high on that one but it fired ok.
    20221113_205834.jpg
    This one, however, shows the spark starts then tracks out partway through and ends in a spike then the wiggly line of the coil ringing.
    20221113_205915.jpg
    A useful online resource has this.

    Yup, rotor cap insulation is breaking down. New cap time.

    Phil
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2022
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  22. Bruce A Lyke
    Joined: Jun 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,399

    Bruce A Lyke
    Member

    Looks like you have a few more devices to use than most:rolleyes:
    Nice work figuring it out
     
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  23. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 1,719

    PhilA
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    It's just an old 1970's HP oscilloscope. You can pick them up fairly cheaply. Same idea as one function of the tv screen in one of the old SUN testers.
     
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  24. v8flat44
    Joined: Nov 13, 2017
    Posts: 1,091

    v8flat44

    It sure sounded GR8 going out fo & into the driveway. !st upshift sounded good too. I sure like that car:)
     
  25. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 1,719

    PhilA
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    That was 1-3, gearbox was getting hung up again.
    When the new cap comes in and its running right I'll film it working properly because we've got some cold weather right now and in the cold it shifts smooth as butter.
     
  26. Pontmerc
    Joined: Jul 13, 2013
    Posts: 173

    Pontmerc
    Member
    from Finland

    Now you only have to learn finnish..
    Good luck, you are on right track.i have a specially automotive oscilloscope and like you see, very good instructions how to find fault in points ignition. 16685433980868912556509159938583.jpg 16685434317488521140077884148550.jpg 16685434593468274552321152375905.jpg 1668543490980559126242793267315.jpg 16685435098725584696447528282509.jpg 1668543528312293294193720228618.jpg 16685433980868912556509159938583.jpg 16685434317488521140077884148550.jpg 16685434593468274552321152375905.jpg 1668543490980559126242793267315.jpg 16685435098725584696447528282509.jpg 1668543528312293294193720228618.jpg
     
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  27. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 1,719

    PhilA
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    Very useful to understand!

    20221116_163843.jpg
    Today, I replaced the distributor cap and rotor arm. That got rid of the stuttering. I replaced the plugs also and the smooth has returned.
     
  28. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 1,719

    PhilA
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  29. Chief 64
    Joined: Dec 10, 2010
    Posts: 238

    Chief 64
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    Phil
    What plugs are you using now?
    Greg
     
  30. PhilA
    Joined: Sep 6, 2018
    Posts: 1,719

    PhilA
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Autolite 291
     
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