Mig Welding that look like tig

I actually want to practice this welding technique for my motorcycle fender mounts and seat pivot because they will be exposed to the naked eye . I would've posted this at the jockey journal but I get a lot of good fab tech info here. I was gonna weld it the regular way and grind down the welds so they flush into the rest of the frame (but not grind it down to the point where the welds are so thin they might crack) but then I thought the rest of the frame is tig welded so it would be cool to have the same look all around the bike.

 

What's the "regular way"?

-Brad

 

the regular way I normally do it. but yea, I don't know the proper terminology so i name things as I see them.

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/w4RrDeUKcH4" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

 

You must have a good machine that is set up correctly and lots of practice. Everybody developes their own technique over the years.

Go to www.weldingtipsandtricks.com and subscribe. Jody Collier is one of the best and every week he sends out a short video explaining different ways to weld stuff. There is an archive of past videos and you can spend a rainy day just watchng and learning.

I make welds like the one in the picture using the "e" method. Establish the puddle and move the torch like you are writing a continous line of lowe case "eeeee".

Clean metal and good ground are important.

 

I am going to agree with Hammerstien here and unlike Hammerstien I AM and expert!

While Skotty's welding may look good, (depending on your view of good, to me it looks like crap from a strength standpoint), it is not a good weld. That degree of movement in and out of the puddle will create areas at the root that are not welded at all.

How do I know that, because I have inspected welds like that using RT and destructive testing and they are piss poor. Sorry man, not making fun of you just stating the truth.

Whipping is typically used by welders who cannot run a traditional bead as they are not steady enough. If whipping is to be used the maximum amount of movement in and out of the puddle should not exceed 1.5 times the diameter of the wire. When welding with .035 that would be .0525 inches.

People have been trying to make a GMAW (MIG) bead look like a GTAW (TIG) bead for years. Ever hear of pulse or pulse on pulse GMAW?

If you want a bead that looks like a GTAW then buy the proper machine. If you want a weld that can be made fast and economically get a GMAW machine. Otherwise just use your "MIG" machine, learn how to weld properly, and make quality welds.

I want to make it clear that I am not trying to piss anybody off but I have spent the last 30+ years in the welding industry as a welder and a degreed Weld Engineer and most of the advice I see is usually crap.

Not always as there are some very good welders here that know what they are doing but that "fancy" TIG looking welding is not for anything but cosmetics.

Now, if you don't believe me send me a sample and I will test it here in my lab and post up the results to prove my point.

goose-em,

BSWE, AWS Certified Welding Inspector No. 04080521, ASNT Level III PT, ACCP Level II VT, ASNT No. 177953

 

There are 101 ways to weld. Always willing to learn.

 

that was Skotys welds, and the guy who tought me and Skoty is Arie from Hot Rod havoc (HOTRODHAVOC.COM) he builds hot rods and trophy trucks, he tough us the "whip it cursive "e" technique" and it is a continous weld. it takes practice and setting up your machine right and its not a bunch of tack welds... go on yahoo and type MIG LIKE TIG and alot of info comes up...

Roger
Voodoo kustomz

 

Yep, that's a real nice MIG weld...

bingo...


if you want it to look like TIG, get a TIG.

 

As a CWI , I totally agree with goose-em.
Years ago the company I worked for bought a couple of the miller 450p pulse machines when they first came out. They made real prettypulsed welds on stainless and looked really good but the guys using them didn't have the training on how toset them up and 90% of them failed inspection because the roots did not penetrate 100%. A couple classes from miller and everything was good then.

 

I'm a horrible welder...........from a cosmetic standpoint, and it has gotten worse as my eyes have aged. BUT, none of my welds have ever broken, even ones I did 25 years ago with an old Lincoln 220 arc welder. So I guess that proves the point that the experts who posted are trying to make, that there is a difference between pretty welds and strong welds sometimes. We all ooooh and aaaaah over the ones that look like the row of nickles but pretty takes a backseat to strong every time. Not to say some of the pretty ones aren't strong either.

Don

 

A photo showing a good GMAW (MIG) weld, sorry about the primer.

And a photo showing a large crack that resulted from whipping and no it wasn't welded in Mexico.

 

Thanks for the replies guys. It's always good to see both sides of the coin.

 

its really not too hard to get a "pretty" mig weld

 

this is basically what the video that came with my lincoln years back said to do. always works better with gas versus flux cored, but it's a good technique

 

amazing welding

 

practice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

This thread is interesting. I saw this video several months back and thought the cursive "e"s sounded like a good technique and makes a nice looking weld. But after reading some of the posts I went back and looked again. I'm not so sure that it is a very strong weld. Doesn't look like he's getting much penetration.

 

Thanks for posting that vedio, first time I've ever seen a nice MIG weld go down. I could stick weld as good as that, and do the same in aluminum with a TIG, but never had a shot of TIG on steel. MIG it a totally foreign way of welding to me, the nonstop wire spinning out of control, no "puddle" in sight is a mystery I'll never understand. If I ever get a pile of Mad Money I'm treating myself to a TIG unit. Gas is good, TIG's the best.

 

This is a constant pass...no start and stop or stitching.

 

I am putting up a bet here..... some one/anyone, do a butt weld test on a single beveled 1/2 m/steel and use this start stop /whip out of puddle technique on all passes(root,hot,fill and cap) and pass a standard bend test I will send you $50, I'm not worried about loosing the $50 because I GUARANTEE you will fall!!!

 

Sometimes skill flat out transcends technique. You don't want to speak in absolutes like that.

One caveat though...you're right about not going "in and out" of the puddle. You can change the appearance of a bead quite a bit by different motions, but you want to be leading or pushing the puddle, not leaving it or letting it cool. Watching the puddle and understanding what it's doing are everything.

 

One of the things to keep in mind is that many pieces that we might be welding are NOT structurally critical; i.e. a weld that poses a life-or-death situation should it fail. The weld I showed in my first post was an A pillar body mount that I built while replacing the wood sub-frame in my Aussie 32 phaeton. If it were to crack/break nobody gets hurt. Critical chassis welds are whole nother thing.

What really gets me are the guys (I know a couple) who do chassis work with their 110V MIG welders.

 

I've seen some pretty shitty welds done by several auto manufactures over the years, and they all seem to hold up good.
When I use my mig I always take a rubber mallet to the parts to see if I can beat it apart. Of course I don't do this to sheet metal, but I did it to my frame and suspension parts for my jalopy pick-up!

 

And on the other hand, I've seen a lot of shitty welds break.

You don't want to discount the cumulative effect of use and abuse, or that one massive impact that would surely be greater than your hammer.

I know hot rodders are "do it yourself" guys, but I can only imagine how many eyes would be opened if most had to go through certified destructive testing once or twice.

 

I have a bachelors degree in Welding Engineering from Ferris State. I'm a certified Weld Inspector, and i put myself through college as a welder/fabricator.

Here's the lowdown on the "whip" technique that i've seen posted on here numerous times. Does it look nice...to most poeple yes. Unfortunately this is a very "cold" technique, especially in a short circuit transfer like i was hearing on the video. Weaving back and forth from the puddle to the meniscus cools down the weld.

Will these welds break. Probably not. The fact most of these pictures show a frame thats welded 100% at every seam...There's about 3 times as much weld cross section there as any factory frame design so i wouldnt worry about them failing anytime in the near future. Will these welds pass a bend test...probably not. Will they pass an X-ray inspection...never. Would i pass them as a structural weld...never.

 

i agree whole heartedly on what this welder has said.

to start off with i went through a four year apprenticeship for welding as an employee for the department of the navy. in the program we not only learned to weld but there was metalurgy and all of the welding tests were x-ray certification and some were to necular specifications as per NAVSEA MILSPECS.

what i have seen on this website is awfully scary. what i have seen in the car magazines is even scarier because the welder manufacturers are having non trade trained people write welding articles that are nothing more than infomertial articles to sell welding equipment.

personally i finally have an opertunity to write welding articles in the format i used when i taught school and certified welders to the standards of AWS-D 1.1, the structural steel welding code. i brought to my students not only what was required by the welding code but i passed on to them what i learned and put into practice from my training.

when i see welds pictured in blogs here and other sites it scares me.

then a weld is done improperly is is an accident waiting to happen. people get hurt and worst case KILLED.

if someone wants to weld things and produce a product to impress people, then learn to do it the right way, do it once and there is nothing to be concerned with as far as a failure.

if something can't be done right the first time, then don't bother to do it at all.

the welds that look like they were done with SMAW look like they done with E6010 or E6011. those are actually the only two i know of that are done in a whipping action. just about everything else is a drag with a slight oscolation. rinning a MIG bead in the mannor that was shown in the original thread has no penitration, is allowed to be too cold and has no innerpass temperature because it is allowed to cool to produce the pretty and symeterical appearence that is obtained. if those pieces are put to a stretch test those beads will seperate from the one side or the other like peeling a scab off of a wound.

my opnion is they are garbage, i would not even let who ever did them work on a radio flyer wagon to haul my trash cans to the curb.

 

In all fairness though he may have been showing a technique for informational purposes only...not worrying so much about the strength of the weld.

 

I really know nothing but must ask, "can this pretty be applied over a good first weld?"

 

Then what would be the point, cosmetics? Doesn't sound to economical as it's a waste of wire and time

 

For anyone wanting to read more
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=30845