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Technical Metalwork before or after blasting?

Discussion in 'Traditional Customs' started by Dad Was A Racer, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. Dad Was A Racer
    Joined: Oct 7, 2014
    Posts: 138

    Dad Was A Racer

    My '56 Olds project is ready for sandblasting/primer. The body is stripped and ready to come off the frame, and will need firewall treatment, floor pans, lower door skins and some minor rocker patching. Should I have the car blasted, sanded and epoxy primer/sealed before the metalwork? That's the way I see it done on every car project show on TV, and what I would naturally assume, since I'll want to see exactly what's under the paint, body tar, etc. to know what to fix, but one shop owner has suggested doing the patch panels first, then blasting.

    What does the HAMB say?
  2. Gerrys
    Joined: May 1, 2009
    Posts: 327


    Find out what you have before you start. Blast/strip it first.
    BigChief, X38 and warhorseracing like this.
  3. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,312


    I have them in epoxy primer. Most projects are exactly that and can take a couple years to get the metal work done and if its in raw metal you'll need to have it blasted again before priming. Don't worry about the epoxy primer, it ain't gonna hide anything, you'll see what needs to be done. What I suggest is to take them the body on a rotater an dthey'll be able to blast and primer all the hard to reach places.
    Dino 64 and lothiandon1940 like this.
  4. Dad Was A Racer
    Joined: Oct 7, 2014
    Posts: 138

    Dad Was A Racer

    Now see, that’s exactly what I had planned to do, and this same dude said the body would move around too much on a rotisserie and to leave it on the frame, but how the hell do I properly fix the bottom of the body with it on the frame? That didn’t make sense to me.

    I will brace it in the door jambs and across the width of the body, but it’s a post car, not a hardtop so I don’t see it tweaking that much. Am I wrong here?

    Sent from my iPad using H.A.M.B.

  5. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,927


    All cars shift when not on their frame, if not properly braced. How much depends on design, and overall condition.

    Don't find out the hard way.
    BigChief likes this.
  6. choptop40
    Joined: Dec 23, 2009
    Posts: 4,231


    Cross brace and send it out...or find someone that will work with you..your money after all....
  7. Smiffy
    Joined: Dec 30, 2014
    Posts: 145


    Agree with ChopTop40. Brace everything that even looks like it will move. Ask around see if there is anyone else who has done this type of work and obviously knows what they're doing. Rotisserie is the best way to go just make sure the old girl is well and truly braced.
  8. I agree that your talking to the wrong sand blaster. For me, I try to do as much floor and rocker repair as possible while still on the Frame. I've seen to many projects go to Hell from being built on saw horses or hanging on a rotisserie. It's all about what your starting with and what you expect in the end. Really it's about how well do you understand the reaction of what your doing and how good you are at it. I feel that the Frame it's going to live on is the best place to do the reconstruction back to good and solid there is. Then you know things are Correct as you go. I never could find a Sand Blaster that didn't cause me more repair work than there was to start with in body panels. Being that ended up being inside and outside tin work I chose many years ago to just do that part and have never gone back to the Blasters. My last treatment reinforced my decision in that my Painter chose to hire a blaster to do just the Door jambs and drip rails on my 57 Ford, that escalated into a full Roof Skin replacement not due to rust but due to the wrong driver behind the Blast gun. I have since changed Painters.
    The Wizzard
    gimpyshotrods and belair like this.
  9. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,828

    Johnny Gee
    from Downey, Ca

    A little off but is part of the equation here. Question than concerns me. Being in primer for so long and that it is primer (forgive me I know nothing about today's primers) what concerns are there for area's that get dirty or accidental oil or grease on it?
  10. That is a very valid question. Air tool oil, hand oil, WD-40 is all good for paint failure issues if not totally removed. What's the cure for that? This is one reason any metal work I used to do stayed just that, bare metal. I let the painters start with Naked Metal be it with a little brown tint or not.
    The Wizzard
    Johnny Gee likes this.
  11. oldsman41
    Joined: Jun 25, 2010
    Posts: 1,556


    Cross brace the inside and trunk real good i over do it but that’s me.
    jvo likes this.
  12. jvo
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 235


    Jack it up about two feet off the floor, then climb under there, laying on your back, and start scraping off crud, then cutting rust out, then fitting new pieces in, then welding the new pieces in, and grinding off the uglies. While you are doing this part of the operation, shit will be falling in your face, your neck is gonna get really really sore, and you will be fighting to keep a light where you want it so you can see what you are doing.
    Do your next car, and brace it up real good, then put it on a rotisserie, and do all the work you did to the previous car. Come back and tell us which way you prefer to do it.
    Texas57 likes this.
  13. Catch 22....great movie,
    I would brace the front and rear door openings and cross brace those.
    If you are serious about doing an a great job then rent, buy or build a rotisserie.
    Get the body Media blasted (not sand) and put it on the rotisserie.
    Prime it with WELDABLE primer. As you finish a spot take a hand held blaster to get rid of
    any discoloring on the outside and inside. Bondo or lead if needed. Re-prime the area with epoxy primer. Move to the next area, repeat.
    OR if you are quick.....fix the body and media blast it again, prime.
    Check the weather......
  14. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 10,058

    anthony myrick

    Finishing up a 59 conv
    The doors were removed and heavily braced while still on the frame. The tub was blasted on a rotisserie then epoxied.
    The floor work ( except trunk area) was preformed on the rotisserie
    After the floor work it was placed back on the frame. I do all my exterior sheet metal work on the sprung suspension and preferably with the engine and trans in. Especially for a convertible.
    I will not do any body or sheet metal work without the body bolted to a sprung chassis with correct/ new body bushings installed.
    We blasted and epoxied parts as we build it.

    Whatever is not fit during the build usually doesn’t fit after the build
  15. Dino 64
    Joined: Jul 13, 2012
    Posts: 2,255

    Dino 64
    from Virginia

    C11C4046-21CC-4D01-9E14-3BD18EC11E29.jpeg 26A2A1B2-F268-4C28-93E0-AB7615B9F2C3.jpeg B032394D-29BD-448F-B430-17CBDE584AD7.jpeg 82AC4126-635A-4D09-8D72-029AA757FE97.jpeg 42C14B66-8B6B-45D0-8F2D-0ADE8E741A13.jpeg Took @ OJ’s advice and had the body of my coupe blasted and epoxied. Made up this brace, lift X member. Worked out well. No distortion of the body, or panels. But, it really depends on the operator. Only trusted him after I saw Oj’s project. Pics are out of order, sorry
    oj likes this.
  16. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 2,835


    I learned my lesson on removing a body from a frame without bracing it first the hard way many years ago. Its amazing how much stuff moves once its off the frame. Cross brace that body, between the doors, front to back and side to side. if your going to remove the firewall, brace towards the bottom of it as well. Same with the rear, if your removing the trunk floor, brace that back end. Too much bracing is better then not enough.

    Its kind of nice to weld new stuff in if the area your working in has been blasted clean, but if the body shell is pretty questionable, you may need to do some metal work before it gets blasted. If the body is properly braced, that may ease the concern of the blaster you have spoken with. Maybe he sees more damaged area then you see, after all, he has done this before. When he told you that you needed to do some metal work before you had it blasted, I suspect he was giving you good advice.

    When I took the body shell off my coupe, there was exactly 18" of questionable floor left on each side between the firewall and the back edge of the trunk. Lifting that body shell off the frame without bracing would have been disastrous, even as it was, more bracing would have been helpful, but there really wasn't enough of the original car left to get a perfect alignment. Had it been going back on the original frame, it would have been a huge undertaking. Gene
    gimpyshotrods likes this.
  17. woodiemike
    Joined: Jun 19, 2010
    Posts: 320


    7AA1F7F0-B775-42D2-83A3-794CBF5A409C.jpeg 2FD128D9-4B0A-4530-BBC2-3AC87C60A23F.jpeg
    Your blaster will love you!
  18. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 2,835


    You CA guys have it made! There wouldn't be anywhere near that much sheet metal left on a convert around here! Just to show you what fun your missing:

    The 1st picture is the of the rocker (missing) the center body mount & its brackets (the rubber is gone), the original frame (which you shouldn't be able to see) and the remaining floor, the was only left between the frame rails, the outer 8" has rusted away.

    The 2nd picture is at the rear edge of the front door. The piece you see sticking towards you is the rear door post, the little step on the end is where the door bottom would meet the rear rocker panel you can see how much is gone.

    Just for fun, this last picture is the remains of the front body mount, at the firewall, from inside the car. You can see what is left of the floor support and what is left of the frame support, the rubber mount is still there. The piece at the left side of the picture is the front door post, the structure between is all rusted away. Both doors actually opened and closed nicely!
    Any question of the need for body bracing? Anyone want to send this to a blaster on a rotisserie? I know this is an extreme case, but I have seen many that are not much better, they just have thin pitted rusty floor pans covering the rotted structure below the tin. Gene

    Attached Files:

  19. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,927


    You know, you can buy a car here in California, and take it East.

    Once you get the trailer over a couple of mountain ranges, it is smooth sailing.
  20. Mbartils
    Joined: Oct 12, 2017
    Posts: 63


    Personal opinion, do as little before its sandblasted and primed as possible because a lot of thing you think are fine end up being full of holes at least that's my personal experience on getting cars sand blasted. If the car has some serious floor / inner outer rocker deterioration , then it might be worth it to first do some structural work to stiffen up the car. Also as others have said bracing is your friend its better to over-brace the trunk/interior X everything and you'll likely not have a problem after it comes back.
  21. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 2,835


    gimpyhotrods, can't get a body shell from CA for the $200 I spent on this one. It was destine for a modern chassis on a ride I expected to last 2-3 years. The original floors would have had to come out anyway. Gene
  22. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 19,927


    Probably not $200, but for about $1600, you might not need a trailer to get home.
  23. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 16,059

    from oregon

    Always thought it odd the dealerships that have their body shops in the same building as their mechanical and lube racks.
    Children, can you say "fish eye".
    Pist-n-Broke likes this.
  24. mikhett
    Joined: Jan 22, 2005
    Posts: 1,413

    from jackson nj

  25. Dad Was A Racer
    Joined: Oct 7, 2014
    Posts: 138

    Dad Was A Racer

    So the car is definitely going to the blaster for stripping and primer before I start the metal work Now that that's been settled, how to transport it the best was has become my new concern.

    The Autotwirler rotisserie I have has specific instructions for transporting a body on it, including how/where to strap the rotisserie to the trailer, etc. I have concerns though about first, loading the suspended body onto the trailer and not creating excessive torque on the body, and second, the "bouncing" effect of the body being suspended front and rear only while going down the road on the twirler on its way to the shop.

    Alternately, I can buy/build a body cart to transport it on, or set the body back on the chassis to transport it to the body shop, and incur the additional labor for them to mount it on the twirler and back on the chassis once it's done.

    I'm I worrying too much hear about body movement or what?

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