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Projects Messing Around With an 8BA Flathead

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by GreaserJosh13, Apr 17, 2020.

  1. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 583

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    Hey guys. I picked this 8BA up about 2 years ago up in Fresno & the plan is to put it in a home built AV8 Roadster. I didn’t really know the condition & wasn’t really sure if it would turn freely, but I didn’t want to just start cranking on it & break something so with the help of my kids we pulled the heads, water pumps, & intake manifold to make sure everything looked ok before I tried turning it. After the heads were off I lubricated the cylinders with some PB blaster & Marvel Mystery Oil for a couple of hours just for good measure. After that I was able to easily turn the engine with the old school hand crank on the front pulley. I checked every valve & not one was stuck & everything moved as it was supposed to. I think I’m just going to get new gaskets & seal it all back up. Give it an oil change & give it a tune up & try to fire her up. Here’s some pics of the progress. My kids are having a blast. I actually loosened up the bolts on one side & had my 7 year old take all the bolts off by himself while I was at work one day. It was awesome seeing the sense of accomplishment he got from doing it. If anyone can help me out in obtaining parts I’d appreciate It.
    Thanks.

    Here’s a video off it turning. Sorry for the loud crunching. I was hitting a plastic bag every time I turned it.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



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  2. Good for you.Keep their interest.
     
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  3. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,913

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That looks pretty good. The valley looks clean, and I don't even see any "part number" cracks. (I really can't be sure because of the size of the pictures, but it does look promising.) Clean it up good and go for it.

    It looks like a truck engine (the bellhousing), but that's really a plus. Just curious; what does it say on the heads? "8RT", "8BA" or something else.
     
  4. 51504bat
    Joined: May 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,755

    51504bat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm guessing truck based on the 1/2 bell as mentioned above, what looks like an 11 inch clutch, the large input splines on the clutch disc, wide belts (an 8ba from a car would have had narrow belts), and what appears to be a truck 4 speed trans on the ground in the background. Just a guess on my part but it doesn't really matter. If its going in an AV8 you'll want wide belt truck pumps for the way they mount anyway and the 1/2 bell will allow you to bolt up a '39 trans, easy peasy.
     

  5. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 583

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    Yes. I believe it’s a truck motor. It has the large clean out on the oil pan. I tried finding serial numbers in the intake surface but I cant find anything. Maybe it’s been decked. Im pretty pumped about how clean it ended up being inside since I drove 5 hours one way to Fresno to pick it up. I was really surprised to find absolutely ZERO signs of rat/rodent infestation under the intake manifold. I can’t wait to fire it up. I’ve already got a 39 top loader trans 78-7006. I’m planning on using the newer/nice gears from the side loader.


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  6. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,913

    tubman
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    "78-7006" sounds like a '37 transmission; they're not to bad by themselves. Be aware that you will probably need a '39 shifter top (or at least the 2nd-3rd fork) to use the later sideshift gears in that case.
     
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  7. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 583

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]t[​IMG]



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  8. Very nice engine,,,,,,,it looks like a good one !
    It should work out just fine ,,,,,I can’t wait to see it fire up !

    Tommy
     
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  9. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 583

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    Same here. Gonna order up some gaskets today.


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  10. ERguitar
    Joined: Aug 26, 2018
    Posts: 198

    ERguitar
    Member

    You got your kids involved. From this point on whether the motor is any good or not is just a bonus. Well done.
     
  11. 51504bat
    Joined: May 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,755

    51504bat
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    Mac Van Pelt for tranny parts and all other things transmission including his rebuild book. Lots of sources for engine parts. I used Red's Headers out in the desert for the rebuild parts for my 8ba. Knowledgeable guy, quality parts, and fair prices. I drove out and picked everything up with a buddy who bought a set of headers to use in his AV8 build at the same time. Worth the drive IMO. Good luck with your build. I also recommend a Chevy distributor conversion. Bubba (who did mine) is no longer doing them due to health reasons but CharlieNY on the Ford Barn does them and he has an excellent rep. He did a carb for me including rebushing the throttle shaft and it runs like a top. I'm sure there are others as well that are converting the distributors. Just my .02 cents.
     
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  12. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 583

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    Do any of you guys have any suggestions on installing new head gaskets. I was planning on just using simple fel-pro gaskets. Nothing crazy & just making sure I torque the bolts down properly.


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  13. leon bee
    Joined: Mar 15, 2017
    Posts: 798

    leon bee
    Member

    I always used Copper Coat on any head gasket. Until I had to remove some heads I'd done not long before with those Felpro gaskets. Not again, what a mess. Last 8BA heads I put on, I borrowed a tip from somebody at the Ford Barn: I brushed both sides of the gaskets with grease. Haven't had to pull one of those, but no leaks or problems with the gaskets.
     
  14. 51504bat
    Joined: May 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,755

    51504bat
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    I used Best Gaskets when I rebuilt my 8ba. No issues.
     
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  15. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,913

    tubman
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    The regular Fel-Pro gaskets are fine. If done right, you shouldn't need any sealer; as "leon bee" said, it makes a real mess for the next guy (maybe that's you!). Regular old grease is fine. Make sure the deck is clean and check it for flatness. If you find that they it is slightly warped. there's really no much you can do about it on an already assembled engine, but you can run a file over it to knock down any high spots around the bolt holes, I consider bolts to be fine and believe studs on a street 8BA are more trouble than they're worth (and a good stud kit is E-X-PENSIVE). Also, don't use a tap to clean the bolt holes in the block. They are a special cut thread and should be cleaned by using a stock Ford head bolt with flutes cut into it.

    You should also take the heads into consideration in this endeavor. You should at least check them for flatness. If they are not perfectly flat, they should be milled to make them so. If you are going to have them surfaced, you should look into optimizing the "quench" in the combustion chamber. One of the best things you can do to increase performance and fuel economy on a flathead Ford is to bring the distance between the piston crown and the head to .045"-,050". There are numerous places here and on "The Ford Barn" where this procedure is described. Also, if you are considering using aftermarket aluminum heads, make sure you use hardened washers under the bolt heads. I have a couple of other suggestions concerning aluminum heads, get in touch with me if you're interested.
     
  16. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 583

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    This is great info. Thanks. I’m not trying to dump a ton of money in to this motor, but I do want it to run as well as it can. I’m wondering about the bolt hole cleaning. I was planing on just putting the bolts bank in. Didn’t know they were supposed to be cleaned out first. Can you post a picture of what the ford bolt with flutes cut into them looks like. As for the heads I’m just planning on using the original heads that were on the motor. How do you check flatness on the heads & is “milling them” expensive???
    Thanks



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  17. GreaserJosh13
    Joined: May 27, 2013
    Posts: 583

    GreaserJosh13
    Member
    from Chino

    Great tip from you & Tubman on using grease on the head gaskets. I’ll do that.
    Thanks.


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  18. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,913

    tubman
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    If there's crap in the bolt holts (dirt, carbon, rust, etc.) you won't get true torque readings when you install the heads. You want to clean that stuff out without removing any metal. I'm sorry I can't provide a picture of my "clean-up bolt", but it's in Minnesota and I am stuck (for want of a better word) in the Florida Keys. It's not anything fancy, just a Ford head bolt with 3 or 4 hacksaw cuts lengthwise in it. Pretty basic stuff. Blow 'em out with air first, run the bolt down and blow 'em out again.

    The original heads will perform just about as well as fancy aftermarket finned heads if you get the "squish" right. The process involves using aluminum foil balls on the top of the piston and then turning the engine over by hand. You them measure the compressed thickness of the compressed balls and decide how much has to be taken off the head to bring most of it down to a .045"-.050" clearance. You then have to clean up any close spots with a die grinder. I think I paid $25 a head ($50.00 a pair) for the last set I had done. An interesting aside here is that after I determined what the best "cut" on each head would be, the amounts ended up being different. .030" from one and .040" from the other on one set I did, if I remember correctly. I haven't mentioned head to valve clearance, because it has never been even close to a problem with a stock cam; you should put a foil ball on top of each valve thought, just to be absolutely sure.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
  19. 51504bat
    Joined: May 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,755

    51504bat
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    Make sure you use a sealer on the head bolts when you re install them. Many different thoughts on what to use. The machinist that did the work on my block said to use number 2 Permatex. My engine has several thousand miles on it with no coolant leaks around the head bolts. Don't forget to re-torque the heads a couple of times after initial start up. I made a pre-oiler out of an old paint pressure pot to get oil pressure before starting the new rebuild. You can also use a hand pump garden sprayer to do the same thing.
     
  20. town sedan
    Joined: Aug 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,290

    town sedan
    Member

    I've read about the foil balls to check clearance between the head and piston over on the Barn, but have wondered something about that.

    The ball goes dead center of the piston correct?
    Also they talk about doing this with a used head gasket. I'd think this gasket should be of the same type/thickness as the ones used for reassembly correct?

    Thank you for the information.
    -Dave
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2020
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  21. town sedan
    Joined: Aug 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,290

    town sedan
    Member

    Wouldn't the sealer affect the torque reading of the bolts and how did you compensate for this?
    -Dave
     
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  22. 51504bat
    Joined: May 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,755

    51504bat
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    Not sure. Just know you need to seal the threads. Probably info over on the Ford Barn as well.
     
  23. leon bee
    Joined: Mar 15, 2017
    Posts: 798

    leon bee
    Member

    Yeah, just goop em up and twist em down. And the torque number isn't all that high, either. Maybe 45.
     
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  24. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 5,331

    Fortunateson
    Member

    I'm no expert but you may have a crack at #3 ex and #6 intake valve pockets...
     
  25. I enlarged the pics all I could,,,,I don’t see it ?
    I see a lot of carbon in the usual places,,,,,but not quite sure where any cracks might be .
    I could be wrong,,,,,can you pin point it please ?

    Tommy
     
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  26. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 5,331

    Fortunateson
    Member

    Mart with the "Crusty Flathead" on YouTube showed this on the last installment...
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
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  27. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,250

    Ebbsspeed
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    Make sure you really clean the block deck surfaces well. It'll help you see if there are any cracks, which are not uncommon on the Ford Flathead V8. Two most common areas are from a bolt hole to a water passage, and the other would be at the valve seat area heading towards the cylinder or a bolt hole. Crack1.JPG Crack2.jpg
     
  28. town sedan
    Joined: Aug 18, 2011
    Posts: 1,290

    town sedan
    Member

    That's good to hear. I've always liked Permatex #2, thanks.
    -Dave
     
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  29. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,913

    tubman
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    Just to make sure everyone understands, the first picture "Ebbsspeed" posted is not a good thing. It can be repaired with "stitching" and a sleeve. If you have a block with one of those, it may make sense to repair it if the block is in good shape otherwise. The second photo shows what is commonly called a "Part Number Crack", in that they are so common in flathead blocks that some wags say they have their own part number from Ford. They are harmless. In my experience, once in a while, you will find a block with none of the "Part Number Cracks". Although there may be exceptions, I have never seen one of these that tested bad.
     
  30. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 6,913

    tubman
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    I always use 6 or 8 on the bottom half of the piston (the top half is in the transfer area, so there is a ton of room). It will help in determining how much to mill off the head. I always put one larger ball on top of each valve to make sure there is no head/valve interference. I use a used head gasket held down by 4-6 head bolts, snugged up. After I am all done with the clearancing, I re-install the head with no gaskets and turn it over several times to make sure nothing is hitting. Since a compressed gasket is around .055 thick, this will make sure you won't have any piston/head interference problems.

    Also, I forgot to mention the sealer on the head bolt threads. It not only seals any water leaks, but actually serves as kind of a lubricant that will ensure consistent torque readings.
     
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