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Customs MEL Motor

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by willsullivan, Jun 3, 2018.

  1. willsullivan
    Joined: Apr 16, 2016
    Posts: 83

    willsullivan
    Member

    Ive got a lead on a 1958 410 MEL motor out of an edsel, what do yall know about them? it has the same bolt pattern as the FE, so what is the best manual trans for it? I really havent heard much about them but i think it would be an awesome motor in my 1951 Ford F1. any help or insight is helpful. Thanks yall!
     
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  2. I believe a 410 Edsel is a FE motor..not a MEL. Will interchange with another FE. like 390, 352, 428 etc etc.
     
    loudbang and Hnstray like this.
  3. 410 Edsel is a MEL
    410 Mercury FE came out much later (390 bore, 428 crank)
    Lots of MEL info here..Do a search
     

  4. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,751

    Deuces

    I'm tuned in.... So, will it work???.....
     
  5. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 8,796

    Marty Strode
    Member

    This fits a MEL ! Weiand Drag Star LM6. IMG_1689.JPG
     
    Deuces, lowrd, mgtstumpy and 2 others like this.
  6. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,795

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Torque engine....get something strong. The Cruise-O-Matics lived behind them OK. Adapters available from different manufacturers. Google trans adapters. If rebuilding get a guy who knows what he's doing when boring. Good luck.
     
  7. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    Early MELs used the FE pattern so a C6 would be a good upgrade.
     
  8. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 3,092

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    Just to clear up some confusion.

    Edsel had 2 engine options in 1958.

    #1: E-400 which was a 360 ci FE (390 bore, 352 crank) V8. The 400 came from its peak torque rating of 400 ft-lbs.
    #2: E-475 which was a 410 ci MEL V8. Again the 475 came from the peak torque rating of 475 ft-lbs. This was considered the premium engine.

    This is a good choice for a '51 F-1, I am in the slow process of building a blown 430 MEL (490 ci after bore and offset ground crank) for my '51 F-1. There are a few things that I am already aware of and working on fixing.
    Weight: The 410 weighs quite a bit more than the original flathead. Spring and dampen the front suspension accordingly.
    Width: The 410 is a large and wide engine. Don't be surprised if you have to mod the inner fender wells or frame / steering / shock mounts.
    Torque: The 410 (or any MEL) makes a TON more torque then the old flathead. Plan on reinforcing the frame appropriately.

    The OP asked about about manual transmission options. With the FE pattern, there are options, but they are somewhat limited. The classic Top Loader 4 speed will work well, but doesn't have overdrive. 3/4 and 1 ton pickup 4 speeds like a NP435 or T-18/T-19 can be found with FE bellhousings, again no overdrive, but a GearVendors or range splitter can take care of that problem. The heavy duty Borg-Warner 3 Spd + OD found in FE powered 60's Galaxies and Full Size Mercs will also work well and provides a good OD ratio. Any modern 5 spd or 6 spd will require a Bendsten Adaptor or Quicktime bellhousing. Quicktime has a bunch of options these days to put just about any modern 5 or 6 speed behind an FE. Lots of folks swear by Tremec TKO's in this application.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  9. jnaki
    Joined: Jan 1, 2015
    Posts: 9,288

    jnaki




    Hey WS,

    We have always liked the MEL motor. We were introduced to the early versions back in the late 50s. The symmetry of the header exhaust ports was one thing my brother and I liked about the MEL. It was a design that allowed smooth bends and a flowing design when creating or adapting pipes for custom headers.

    We would have built one, but they were not readily available in junk yards or speed shops as short/long blocks, like the SBC motors. One of our favorite drag racers was the H&H Garage 671 supercharged MEL race car that we saw almost weekly at Lions Dragstrip. It was very well designed and made. When we saw that it was a MEL and not an SBC or Hemi, that made it more fun.

    The H&H Garage FED was a little scary on the head rollbar clearance, but, it did run well. This MEL FED would not clear inspection, today with all of the safety concerns and rules. But we are talking about 1958-64 era. The newer the era, the newer the safety rules popped up from what happened or could happen in the future. This early time was developing drag racing technology for faster speeds and times. Safety? “I am wearing a leather jacket and helmet aren’t I” philosophy...?
    upload_2018-6-6_4-52-6.png
    Jnaki

    The H&H Garage 671 MEL FED campaigned all over So Cal at the local drag strips. They even went back to the Detroit US Nationals in 1959. Here are a couple of movies that I took at Lions Dragstrip in 1958-59. They are silent movies, but I added the MEL drag racing SOUND from Detroit 1959 of the H&H making a powerful run down the dragstrip at the Nationals. It is quick and loud, so watch your earbuds or speakers. (adjust accordingly…)



    As successful as they were at Lions Dragstrip, H&H had problems at Riverside Raceway in 1959. We all have those uh oh days... An elimination race against the Valley Home Service FED in December 1959.


     
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  10. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,213

    sunbeam
    Member

    Your early MEL has FE bell pattern so you could use a toploader 4 speed or a 3+1 overdrive version.
     
  11. willsullivan
    Joined: Apr 16, 2016
    Posts: 83

    willsullivan
    Member

    Thanks a bunch for the info guys! i really appreciate it! I found an adapter for a NV4500 5 speed that would work. also, where could i find speed parts for these engines?
     
  12. willsullivan
    Joined: Apr 16, 2016
    Posts: 83

    willsullivan
    Member

    Thats awesome! how did you supercharge it? id be very interested in doing that to mine
     
  13. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 3,092

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    I found an old Weiand LM671 intake on E-bay and over paid for it. I then realized that the old Weiand intake would not work well on the street as it is a race only piece, there is no thermostat provision, very small water jackets, and no room for the stock distributor. I then designed a new intake based on the old Weiand geometry, but with a thermostat housing, full size water jackets, and room for the factory dizzy and drew it up in Unigraphics. I am currently working with an aluminum foundry that specializes in prototype and small production run castings to cast up the new design for me. The piece price is steep (10X an Edelbrock FE intake) coming off prototype tooling, but I can't afford the $50K or more for permanent molds and the 100 piece minimum run that most foundry's want (there is probably 5 guys in the world interested in building a 6-71 blown MEL, so not a big market to sell into). Thankfully the rotating assembly will consist of 1-800-dial-a-parts BBC rods and pistons, but I will make up for it on the top end with this motor.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
    willsullivan and loudbang like this.
  14. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,751

    Deuces

    Look into Line Precision Inc.
    We do a bunch of prototype machining on aluminum castings.... We also have a foundry to cast parts..... ;)
     
  15. fordman1
    Joined: Jan 11, 2008
    Posts: 387

    fordman1
    Member

    Does anyone know what transmission pilot bearing is needed to mate an FE 3 speed OD to the crank of a 430 Lincoln? It appears to be 1.85" wide x .43" deep x .665" opening
     
  16. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 14,795

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Use a depth mic and internal one to determine what needed to fit in the crank. The trans snout will give you the internal size of the center of the bushing. A measurement from the flat of the trans to the end of the snout minus the measurement from the depth of the crank to the flat on the bellhousing will give you all the dimensions to have a machine shop make one out of oillite material bought from Mc Master Carr.
     

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