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Technical Meet Flo !

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Flathead Freddie, Sep 7, 2021.

  1. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    Each sleeve is 260
     
  2. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 8,419

    Budget36
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That’s why boring is worth it;). More knowledge minded folks that know about that engine will/can tell you a safe over bore.
    Man, used to be an additional 16 bucks for a sleeve. Lol.
    I’ve only pulled and replaced/honed sleeves for old diesel engines, but they started off with sleeves, so eliminated the “machinists “ from the equation.
    Best of luck, look at all opportunities in front of you.
     
    Flathead Freddie likes this.
  3. Why is it 260 bucks per sleeve ?
    So,,,,that means it is about a 1000 bucks to bore it and install 4 seats ?
    You mentioned almost 2200 for machine work .
    Just asking ?

    By the way,,,,,,these blocks can many times be bored .125 over .

    Tommy
     
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  4. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 8,419

    Budget36
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Naw, looking at over2k there for sleeves. Mercy
     
    Flathead Freddie likes this.
  5. I’m sorry,,,,though he said 4 sleeves,,,,and 4 seats,,,,oh well,,,,I’ve been wrong before,,,,lol .

    Tommy
     
  6. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    Hi Woodbutcher
    Welcome to Freddie and Flo ! Thank you for joining us and my apologies for my tardiness in replying .
    Yes great way to look at it and funny I feel like I've been in a corral roping these engines into life . Its been great and we are not done yet we don't even have a Merc crank yet but have ironed out an out of state deal and logistics is being planned for a Merc engine so it will be Freddie Jr or Floette we see soon I've not acquired it yet . Please read the threads of Meet Flo ! and Freddie's Latest ...
    Thank you again and keep your foot in it !
     
  7. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    Yes 2175
    4 sleeves @ 260 is 1040
    4 seats @ 110 is 440
    Deep clean 300
    Deck 300
    Boring ? I forget
    Cam bearings set 80
    Orchestra
    Champagne
    New Wallet
     
  8. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    4 sleeves and 4 bores like Abraham Lincoln
     
  9. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    Hi Everyone

    Hope your day is good and you are well as both are important .
    First I have to tell you of the relief I am experiencing as disassembling Flo will be a normal affair with perhaps the two or three headbolts requiring thread inserts and also the lower right water pump bolt I am letting penetrant soak into but that bolt is really far gone so may also require a thread inserts .
    Flo comes with a new : flywheel -clutch assembly , oil pump , replacement 8BA rods ( there are no cylinder numbers stamped on the rods ) , new crankshaft gear and castled connecting rod/cap lock nuts , 30 over dome slugs , two sleeves in 2 and 8 and a nice looking camshaft .
    The other side of things looks like an oil pan full of sludge I don't recognize as regular oil it pretty coagulated so am thankful I did pull the pan cause if you take a look it wouldn't be good to have all that acid sludge in the oil rings .
    Everyone enjoy your day and keep your foot in it
     

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  10. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 8,419

    Budget36
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The “goop” is just old oil. Pre “modern” oil and PCV.
    I had a really low
    Mileage 265 that had sat (indoors) from the early 60’s until the late ‘90’s. When I took it apart there was an inch of “goop” under the valve covers.
     
  11. The water pump bolt might be rotten,,,,but the threads are probably okay in the block.

    Tommy
     
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  12. Mart
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 4,601

    Mart
    Member

    Try a 6 sided 14mm socket on the water pump bolt. Or hammer on a 12 sided socket of a smaller size, whatever will go on. Sae, metric, Whitworth. Try em all.
     
  13. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    Thank you thank you that old oil sure burns piston skirts jheeez !
     
  14. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    Hi Everyone

    Hope your all healthy and happy ! Everyone give Loudbang support some heartless individual got him and I don't blame him for being hurt . Gouging at someone online is same as sinking a dagger in ones back in other words its a cowardly act and should be policed better and stiffer penalties from Ryan to the perpetrators so everyone give Loudbang a brotherly lift he surely deserves it as he has been instrumental as a staunch supporter of Freddie and Flo from day one . Erika and I also support all of you including Mart in England . We are ALL ONE TOGETHER ON THIS WEBSITE . It is grand and we applaud all of you .
    So on with Flo now the piston skirts do have the burnt oil all over the skirts and the pitted cylinders do have their pistons ring groves caked with rust muck so once againwe thank everyone for your advice cause see I was going to run Flo and sure am glad most of you advised me well enough so I decided to tear down Flo especially after the damage Freddie experienced . That box on the floor next to a wrapped up Flo is all 8 of the piston/rod assemblies and didn't bend a ring or a groove so very lucky indeed so I wrapped up the crank/cam /idler gear /block assy and all the other parts I wrapped plastic stretch wrap . Yes there is muck in the oil pump cavity and that was the first big sign that told me its mandatory full engine disassemble so I'm stopping early today go play with Erika and the critters in the yard so give my knees a rest hope you all have a real nice afternoon also and just keep your foot in it and we do thank you all
     

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  15. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    Hi Everyone it's good to be back where I feel I belong hell everyone says I should get a job well there is plenty of time for that later now I'm mending myself from a toxic scare turned heart attack glad to be here with you and sharing good times and great things we do together . To young to fly the coop though many my age do but ain't my cup of tea . So onward Ho !!

    Flo's crankshaft is now 9n the bench Mains are reading 2.490 Rods are 2.1300 and also got a 3/8 plug in the throws
    The wear looks to be about 30k miles at most very clean nice small radiuses and going to immediately wrap this crank up at least bag it for today .
    Next is the valve train removal and looks to be every part is new so this may get in my head but I'm keeping with the first plan to put some stronger guts in Flo for power . Probably can take this cam to George at Clay Smith and working on acquiring another cam a new 8BA unit from goldenidolcustoms ,got a carb coming in from Winr he giving me the carb bless him right Lord and the Merc crank is coming from Alan Mest and I'm hip to getting some plasma coated slugs from Ross and Dick at Engine Machine Services in Inglewood is Flo's Builder/Artist and then there is the wonderful and magnificent HAMB Team with so much support knowledge and experience I'm sure it's makes the Ghost of Henry shed a tear in pride and to our fearless leader Ryan who brought together the best bunch of folks in the world and hell no I ain't drunk just appreciative how this is all happening so everyone PLEASE keep your foot in it !!
     

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  16. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    Hi Everyone l

    It's a Good day indeed for a Friday to start your weekend so hope your all ready for a good weekend ! Everyone deserves it .

    The going ons in Freddie & Flo's Parlor today are cleaning as much of the 35 year old oil off the crank as possible with a toothbrush to break up the old oil film then just run a clean shop rag over the journals like polishing shoes . I had this extravagant cleaning process planned out like a five step process but ditched that as utter no sense . My projects make me happier man not an older man . Ha and yes I'm still riding a bicycle no buying a normal car till I'm done building this car . Man am I healthy for 60 or 30 even !
    So you see I cleaned the journals then oiled them then wrapped oil absorbing industrial diaper strips around the oiled journals then wrapped tape around them and am doin it hastily so oxidation does not set in . My environment here is that I'm on top of marshland and two and a half miles from ocean and on a peninsula so nothing but moisture and a constant climate condition called Marine Layer
    so am mummying every part comes my way . Think I've mentioned that proper restoring nowadays requires more effort in containing the ever present RustDemon . I don't know when I'm going to use this crank next either and it's a ready to go .020 " under with a .010 under on the mains depending where you get your spec from and I believe Van Pelts is wrong on they stating the mains 1953 V8 crank is 2.485 . According to Motors Auto Repair Manual 2.485 is the SIX CYL spec for mains . So Hallelujah don't EVER take specs off the internet get a hard copy printed in the same era of your project . I hear Van Pelts runs around hope to meet him at a Car Meet one day think I buy him a Motors Repair Manual .
    So point here is am sure the mains have been tuned down .005 " giving them a ten under size on the mains .

    So what's the big deal !??? When a guy like me comes up to your running flathead and can tell by the idle and putting a hand on the upper edge of the head and turn to you and say if you got meat on the crank or not enough meat on the crank . The more machining the more vibration you figure the rest of spend another two grand trying to get a perfect idle . And initial acceleration you can tell also . Ok Everyone the 101 class is infinido now all have a nice weekend !!
     

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  17. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    Hi Everyone

    A good Saturday to you .
    I e thing about projects when you first walk up to it in the morning it's different aspects and clearer judgement than when you last left it .
    I've never had a problem sliding a pulley off a flathead crank and this one does not nudge off with a tapping with a soft blow hammer and noticed that the crank snout edge wanted to dig into the pulley ID so yesterday I stopped and continued to wrap it up with the pulley on the crank .
    Now this morning I walk up to the bench looked at my tidy crank packing job and like a bad flood came in my head and I sat down realizing the snout on the crank is bent . A very nice crank everything except that issue . So upon future use of this crank I am going to have to check the runout and perhaps have the snout repaired . Recall Flo was rebuilt and came from a possible wreck recall earlier 8n this thread I mention damage done to the generator pulley minor it spins freely and a slight dimple dent in the crank pulley . I'm going to have to take the crank to Dick and have him jig it up and check for runout .
    Meanwhile I just got here and am am going to start taking valve clips out this morning and proceed from there .
    Everyone have a nice Saturday and be back later this evening with today's events
     
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  18. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    ... I meant dead-blow hammer and perhaps the keyway went crooked so replacement keyway could be the issue that's why I like original factory parts as first choice
     
  19. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    Help!!

    Ok Everyone please look at the last picture it is the lower water pump bolt . I'm seriously thinking of doing The Mart on it if I can get the Weldy snout in there like an Anteater .I do have a those sockets for rounded off bolts I try that first but getting Weldy out also today so far close call on the rust issue on the back side of the cam think I'll be ok there . So any ideas for the water pump bolt ??
     

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  20. Don’t take it to the same guy,,,,it will cost $1600 to fix the crank snout .

    As to the oil drive gear,,,,,you’ll have to pull it first to see .
    It’s probably just some oily rusty funk on the gear,,,,it might clean up ?

    Tommy
     
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  21. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    Lol ahahaha hey you think that's something I called Ross Pistons to start an order process and slugs and a set of copper topped/Teflon skirted domed with proper wrist pin location forged 2618 CNCed which is a Custom Order is 1180 oh yes those are with the thin rings and wristpins so I'm gonna keep this free phone and save me 109 a month and we see what happens by next March now is new deadline for fire up date if I get these piston assys
     
  22. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    And another thing Tommy you better build your Merc motor to go real fast cause when you come to California $$$$$ your gonna wanna leave going real fast lol
     
  23. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    So I'm chipping away on the bolt head hope to slide the water pump off the bolt then attempt a Mart on it
     
  24. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    If you got the tools you can search for ideas so that's why I pick up handy weird tools like the Proto 5/16 Wedge Chisel that I hardened and glory hallelujah that didn't take long yes I love my 4 lb sledge just rock 8tvon my hand like a baby really sinks chisels into the metal
     

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  25. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 8,419

    Budget36
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I’d try one of those sockets to remove rounded heads, I’ve an impact set. I’ve hammered them on and used an impact driver and a 2lb hand sledge I have.

    Heat ahead of time might help

    Last resort…

    You might try using a hole saw (maybe 5/8th? and SLOWLY start cutting through the WP. Then some creative blows with a hammer and it might crack off. Then you have a much flusher area to weld onto the bolt.

    Edit: Nevermind;)
     
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  26. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    Freddie& Flo's Parlor today
     

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  27. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    ...and yes Tommy your correct the threads on the bolt are good ! Elation before lunch ! After lunch I'm going to check the lift on this cam before I remove the valve clips
     

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  28. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    Ok here we go !!
    A whopping 265 lift !! Oh Boy '' when gas hits 20 a gal I'll get this cam out of Deep Space Nine and utilize it . I'm humored really humored .265 Gheezzzzz
     

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  29. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    Hi Everyone !
    Started the day with making some length of stainless rod 1/8 " and 1/4 " dia for cleaning out the coolant cavity in the block and will continue to scrape away at the walls until Flo sees Freddie again at Dicks shop .
    Next was the valve clips aha!
    Perhaps it's easier to remove them when the valve is seated and No pressure on them just thought about that as I started on them today recall it wasn't an issue with Freddie as we cut the valve heads off with a pair of 36" boltcutters so for today removed 7 clips then the tip wore on the KD 917 so will have to get out Weldy to build up the tip and grind and harden it to usefulness .
    Meeaaaaannttyyyyymmme ...
    Let's remove some valve assys !!
    So I open a valve and put a clip between the valve seat and the bottom of the valvehead to keep the valve stem 9ff the lifter so I can put on one of those HF Pittsburg 4 or 5 in a set prybars for $13 . So I'm going to lean the prybars against the other side of the cavity wall and take a firm and steady grip holding it against the bottom of the valve assembly and without flinching pick up my trusty 4 lb sledgehammer and put a real good eye on the top of the shank where I am going to strike it with the hammer and ya get those valve assys learning how to fly and they do go kinda like a water rocket and Wow wee cauabunga everyone !!!! We got 4 valves out in 20 minutes . Well I'll get the other three out I'm sure and gotta get my welding helmet from the welding school we built a month and a half ago before I can fix the clip removal tool or maybe I just take it to the welding school and share with you how to repair a flathead tool and show you my welding prowess
    Another couple items I think my 4 lb sledge has been instrumental in both engine projects so I better give my little hero a name so Hammy Jr. it is from now on and the second piece of business instrumental in both projects
    " WELCOME BACK LOUDBANG !!
     

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  30. Flathead Freddie
    Joined: May 9, 2021
    Posts: 292

    Flathead Freddie
    Member

    Hi Everyone ,
    Is it Wednesday already ? Waiting on the mail for a new bank card is excruciating when your " cash in pocket broke " and got some nice people on HAMB waiting to sell me some of their treasure from their secret box called a garage .
    Funny women got a jewelry box and men got a garage they both expensive but seem to fit together quite well .
    Parts and two peas if core rust are this mornings ' givings up ' from Flo and was here Monday for a hour or two so got all the exhaust valve assemblies out and funny * think the intake valve guides were manufactured on a separate run altogether seems the valve guide clips are a might to tight of a fit and it's wanting me to have a fit and I'll have none 9f that so I have now stood the engine on it's front face supported with 2 pieces of 2x4 to raise it enough so the cam doesn't get harmed then I removed the idler/ oil pump shaft from rear of block with the homemade slide hammer I used on Freddie it being made from a three ft length of Hardened 3/8 x 16 threaded stock just screw it in the shaft and about 5 wallops and out it came in about 10 seconds . So yes 7 valve assemblies are still in the block with clips so I positioned the valves open to relieve pressure of the valve stem tip off the lifters so I can slide the cam out hopefully without chipping it .
    I may post this afternoon for more if more gets done so Happy Wednesday hope the mailman has the correct envelope today and keep your foot in it we got a ways to go !!
     

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