Mechanical fuel injection trouble

Just talked to earl @ kinsler. Those injectors are for gas.

 

Thank you

 

did you ask him for a real rough guestimate of what you should be running for a setup??

asking the guys that really know seems like the right choice here

 

Yes I have done that. They suggest I take the manifold off and have them go thru it.I don't blame them for being reluctant to give a telephone tune as this is what they do to make a living.They are very helpful but I am so close now,I think I can get it without sending in the unit.I also am trying to save some money,jeez Ive spent too much on this ol car already. BUT I do agree with you 100%
Again thank you to all replys John

 

Where is your guage plumbed in at??

 

Gauge is tapped on top of the shut off valve. It goes from pump to s/o valve and s/o valve to barrel.

 

A very baseline set up for gasoline... set the throttle blade opening to .003 inches. Set the leak on the barrel valve to 10%. You should have your main bypass spring set to open about 2 psi (.016 wire spring). Put a jet with an orifice diameter of approximately .080 inches in the main. The secondary bypass, connected directly to the barrel valve should open about 22 psi. Do not run a jet in the secondary. Make sure that your bypasses are not installed backwards! You shouldn't need a high speed, unless of course, you want to go really fast.
If your injector was set up for alcohol, your pump may be too big, the leakdown on the barrel valve will be too high (around 20%), the main bypass and the secondary bypass will be set to open at higher pressures than you want.
Stay on the rich side. Hope that helps.

 

When you leak the barrel valve, cap of the idle checkvalve so the flow has to go to the nozzles. I used to take the check valve out and reverse it if I didn't have a cap. What will make this work is the right combination of pump size, nozzle area and jet size. The combination has to create adequate pressure for atomization of the fuel and still have the proper quantity of fuel. I'm not versed with unblown gas so I can't help with total nozzle area and jetting. I do know that you will need the smallest pump for this. Once you understand the fuel requirements of the engine, you'll be on the road to success. Carbs run off engine vacuum which means the engine tells the fuel system what to do. Mech. f.i. is controlled by you. You are now telling the fuel system what to do. I had the best results with Enderle and then Hilborn. Some people want your money, some will answer questions and point you in the right direction. Good luck with your quest.

 

I would put the gauge on the NOZZLE side of your B/V - it's the NOZZLE pressure that your interested in. Having it on the PUMP side of the B/V as you have it now will read pressure spikes from your B/V position versus Pump Speed.

 

Here is a link to the guy that sorted out mech. injection for the street,
http://streetmachinemag.typepad.com/street_machine/2008/06/pump-fuel-and-m.html

This is courtoucy of Street Machine Magazine, Thank you guys!!

Doc.

Doc.

 

Update: Last nite we installed a bypass off the main and jetted it with a .080.The difference was huge,but it would still "bobble" over 5500 rpm. We tried going down in jet size,seemed the wrong way to go. Started going bigger and it started getting better.We got up to .100 before it got to late to go down the road. Also I was trying to increase fuel pressure by shimmimg the spring as it did like more pressure more than less.
On a side note,the fuel pump is a pete jackson p-3 with a kinsler # 0-1587 stamped on it,it is not the hilborn pump I posted. I relly appreciate all this info you guys posted here.
One more thing to add,I do have plates and insurance on this car to make it "legal",there are 8 in baffels in the collector and it sounds awsome and loud. It kinda crackles going down the road.......We were driving around with tools and re-jetting every coupla miles then testing over and over.Going thru Plymouth Mi getting ALL kinds of looks...well as we turned back twards home,and bringing up rpm,s there was a Plymouth cop pulled over on the side of the road. As we went by he immedatly flip floped and fliped his lights on.....walked up to the car (running) and with a huge grin on his face,he said "I heard you comming so I knew you were going back this way, this car is the coolest car Ive ever seen,I wont waste your gas,get her going.....I was as shocked as my buddy was,shook the smiling policemans hand and left without ANY hassle/licence check or anything. If you are this policeman reading this(he is a hamb member) have a great day and be safe,I only wish I had a picture of this incedent. John

 

Have enjoyed reading this. I run a Hilborn mechanical fuel injection unit on my 292 Chev. small block on the street and I have no trouble with it. Have not used any special bypasses etc.

I set my blades with a dollar bill folded once. Set the barrel valve with about 6 percent leak down, a 25 thousands pill and away we go.

Car runs good at idle, low speed, mid speed and is hell on wheels with the throttle open.

The only down side is I have to change my oil about every three weeks.

Four speeds and fuel injection rule!

There have many threads posted on this issue of mechanical fuel injection and it not being for the street.

The main issue for me was getting the timing right on the car and giving the engine what it needed.

Once I dialed the timing in the rest fell in place.

My idea is keep it simple and work to the hard. Not the other way around!

Thanks for the great reading guys. Learn something new all the time on the HAMB! That is what it is all about!

Gary aka 1940 Willys coupe

 

Thank the Lord.
Someone that doesn't complain about injection on the street.
It seems that most people just can't figure it out,,or just like to have a nice simple Electronic ride.
More power to you if that is what you want,,,but give me mechanical any day!
Very good post Willys coupe.


By the way,,,Yes,,four speeds do rule!

Tommy

 

according to Hilborn manual pump sholud be 150a#1 (old numbers) for engines over 400 ci,driven 1/2 crank speed, barrel valve 9 to 10 %,nozzles 9A for 430to 480 ci on gas.2 types of bypass valves brass and white teflon. Teflon cannot be used with jets larger than .145.This jet controls mixture at all rpm ranges.Increase in spring tension will result in rich mixture at idle and low rpms, most common is .016 spring. Secondary by-pass is only for part and closed throttle,also high rpm closed throttle positions and is mainly at part throttle clean up valve

 

Now I'm thinking maybe should try my Hilborns again on my 37 with the caddy. I have to get gas jets used to run alky.

 

For The Day Shift!

Keeper coming guys!

The read is great!

Willys Coupe, Running mechanical fuel injection on the street!

 

Hey Rotten Johnny!

How is your fuel injection coming?

Your car is cool!

An update would be appreciate.

Trail and tribulations of running mechanical fuel injection are great. Never can read or learn to much!

Thanks for your time. Keep at it. It CAN be done!

40 Willys Coupe

 

I had to drop the ball on the nova untill sunday,I race a drag radial car at the local track and were racing yestreday and today. I will update this thread as
we make changes.

Panic.....are you saying that too much return off the main bypass is going to cause a lean condition,enough to melt down the motor?....please explain this.


I have driven this car aprox 50 miles on the streets so far and besides the fat conditions wide open, it works....not to mention it sounds wicked as heck.
I will get this figured out.........................................

 

Hey Rotten Johnny!

You have not mentioned what you have your timinng set at.

What is intial timing at the crank?

What is the timming at 3500 RPM?

Getting your timing correct with mechanical fuel injection is very, very important!

Use a good timing light!

Good to hear things are getting better and yes that mechancial fuel injection makes a car sound more "bearish!"\


Thanks!

40 Willys Coupe

 

Willys Coupe,

Bearish,,,,or Bullish?

They do make an engine sound like a bad ass!
Keep trying Rotten,sounds like you are close.

Tommy

 

Been trying different things and thought Id post the results. I kept increasing the hi speed lean out simply by moving up jet sizes and driving the car. When I got to a 120 it started coming around pretty good. Went to track and 1st pass the car was still a little lazy.Went to a hilborn 130 and it came around better then went to a kinsler 130 and it ran pretty damn good.11.20 @127. Pulled plugs and still looks a little fat,but not as bad as it was.The clutch was slipping pretty bad so the next item on the agenda is to increase the pressure plate springs and check disc.
On the road this car is GREAT.It crackles at 45 mph like no other car Ive heard and is totally at home driving down te road.It is rich at idle but clears up soon after rpm's come up. Practical?,probably not but its a 10 in cool scale. Most people don't know what the hell it is and the ones that do are impressed that it is driven on the street.So far it works very well but Ive spent alot of hours tuning it to work. Will keep you guys posted next time out to the track..................Johnny Rotten http://motorcitynationals.com/v-web/gallery/v/070809/TPG_9874+copy.jpg.html

 

Looks good (seen it in Ann Arbor yesterday). You're gonna have to drive down Main st. one of these nights just to mess with the al-fresco diners. But, I'd bet the AA cops aren't as cool as the Ply. cops.

 

kinsler # 0-1587, how does this pump compare to hilborn numbers.

 

I don't have an answer for you Sid, maybe someone else can chime in on this one.
I drove the car a limited amount on the street and went to 4 or 5 nostalgia races this summer and had a blast. There is nothing that looks or sounds like good ol fashion mechanical fuel injection. Car preformed very well and won some shows along the way. It stands your car apart from the rest because hardly no-one else has that set-up.I wouldn't trade this set up for a blower or any other set up because it is plane cool, i love it.
Thanks to all who responded and helped me out. Its been a great summer.

 

Man...does that car have "the look"!

 

Im tellin ya......its all in the fuel injection......................

 

Well,,,,were you happy with it on the street?
Give us a run down of what it performed like,,any trouble with the tuning,,,rich or lean?

Tommy

 

Beautiful car . . . great picture at the track!

 

Hey Tommy, Happy with it is a mild understatement. It does have some slight mid-rpm stumbling, but that can quickly be corrected by increasing rpms.
I used a clicking adjuster on the barrel valve and a kinsler multi jet selector to get the best tune for the weather conditions. The multi jet selector was useful to determine the jet the motor liked in different weather. It was removed recently because it was one of only 2 jets used to make the motor happy. The hi-speed bypass was used to control the mid to hi rpm stumbling. It was the most difficult one because this can only be set by a trial and error method.
It idles a little rich and will stumble just a tad when slowly trying to increase the rpms BUT when you floor it,it rocks.
It may not be the most efficient street set up however it is the coolest. I wouldn't trade it for nothing.
Hope this helps...............................................................Johnny