Register now to get rid of these ads!

Mechanical fuel injection trouble

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by rotten johnny, Jun 2, 2009.

  1. rotten johnny
    Joined: Mar 14, 2009
    Posts: 535

    rotten johnny
    Member
    from Mi

    Is there anyone out here that runs a ram style fuel injection ? I am having issues with my set up,it idles great,and goes down the road great. Problem is when I floor it it seems to flood itself out. If I gradually give it throttle,it will go to 45 # pressure(aprox 4k rpm) nice and then start bobbleing like its getting flooded.When just floored,it will spike to 60-70 lbs and just flood itself rite out,rite now. This set up was on a 454 ci/auto and worked very well. I am now using a 427 ci/with stick and it seems way to rich.I put in new plugs (ngk-9) last nite and tried it,same resalts.Pulled a plug and its fat as could be. The set up has a 280 injector,could this be too much injector? I also have a dial a jet and it seems to like .038 main. Have tried a .040 and a .036 but the .038 seems best. Can I just put in a smaller injector to give it less fuel without having to re-calabrate the whole system?
    I would relly appreciate any input by someone who runs a ram style set-up.
    [​IMG]
    Thanks for the space. John
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2014
  2. Labold
    Joined: Nov 1, 2007
    Posts: 1,219

    Labold
    Member

    I don't know squat about fuel injection, but I do know that is one mean looking ride you have there!
     
  3. I think you will find there is nor true solution to the problem as this type of injection was not designed to operate across the whole spectrum for normal driving duties. It was made for all out WOT, hence it will run well flat out or it will run well low down but not both.
    There was a guy here in Oz that managed to get mech injection to work well for street use but I cant find the article, it was a lot of work and not cheap though.
    Sorry I dont have much more to say about it.
    Doc.
     
  4. btmatt
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 227

    btmatt
    Member

    Do you have a high speed bypass to control fuel pressure?
     
    Register now to get rid of these ads!

  5. rotten johnny
    Joined: Mar 14, 2009
    Posts: 535

    rotten johnny
    Member
    from Mi

    Hi Doc,Ive been told many time that "you cant do that",so I understand where your coming from,however this set up was used on a 57 chevy in flint Mi for several years VERY successfully. It has a street style fuel system that utilizes a thrust tank and dial a jet that was made from a old hot rod artical. I f I can get that hi speed bobble figured out,I think it would work.....Thanks John
     
  6. rotten johnny
    Joined: Mar 14, 2009
    Posts: 535

    rotten johnny
    Member
    from Mi

    No Hi-speed bypass as of yet,I did put a fuel gauge in the car to see where it got "loaded" and that's about 45-50 lbs. Is that where I should think about putting a bypass at 45-50 lbs? I do know after driving the car that without doubt it is getting too much fuel (smoke,plugs sooted)
     
  7. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,351

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma

    if it runs fine everywhere but the high RPM's then yeah a high bypass in the in the 40lb range would work to help out. when I raced midgets with alcohol injected VW's we ran two high speed bypasses to keep the pressure where we wanted it. one of them would lean the motor out past the 7400rpm mark.
     
  8. HemiRambler
    Joined: Aug 26, 2005
    Posts: 4,140

    HemiRambler
    Member

    Are you talking about making this streetable? Or simply optimizing the setup for the strip??

    What size pump are you running????

    Nozzles???
     
  9. I asked the guys at Street Machine if they are willing to let us see an electronic version of the article, I haven't got a scanner so I hope they come to the party.
    I understand if they dont though, they need to make money to survive.
    Doc.
     
  10. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,887

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Go with the high speed bypass set at 45 pounds to start. Work your way down.
     
  11. joemarsicano
    Joined: Jan 21, 2008
    Posts: 188

    joemarsicano
    Member
    from Palmyra PA

    What kind of pump? Hilborn PG150-0?
     
  12. rotten johnny
    Joined: Mar 14, 2009
    Posts: 535

    rotten johnny
    Member
    from Mi

    I believe it is the hilborn pg 150 the nozzles are 280 kinsler. Do the nozzles seem to big ?
    When this system was on the 57,it worked pretty good without that bypass.
    The pump/nozzles were flowed at kinsler 10 years ago for the 454 kinda stock motor and auto trans.....does a 35 ci smaller motor(427 to a 454) and stick trans make a whole world of difference?
    Thanks guys.
     
  13. rotten johnny
    Joined: Mar 14, 2009
    Posts: 535

    rotten johnny
    Member
    from Mi

    One more thing,the 427 was built on a 650 hp build/brodex heads. The 454 was stock,it worked well on the 454.
     
  14. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,351

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma

    depends on the RPM you are turning. if you are turning more RPM with the 427/stick combo than the auto did, then you will have more fuel going into the motor.
     
  15. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,351

    Roothawg
    Member

    What does that nozzle convert to in a hilborn size?
     
  16. flying clutchman
    Joined: Sep 7, 2003
    Posts: 328

    flying clutchman
    Member

    I agree with revkev and the RPMs theory. A 427 will rev way faster than a 454. the difference is night and day. A stock 427 with out rev a stock 454 anyday. your 427 sounds pretty healthy. i think it is revving too fast and supplying too much fuel too quickly.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2009
  17. WhitePunkOnNitro
    Joined: Apr 2, 2009
    Posts: 324

    WhitePunkOnNitro
    Member
    from Middle Tn

    I think Kinsler just ads a zero to the nozzle size in thousandths...which would make those .028....or intended for alcohol.
     
  18. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,339

    sdluck
    Member

    A h 280 is a .0215 orifice which is equal to a hilborn #7 which is close to being right or a little small. Ty lowering the fuel presure or Install a secondary bypass
     
  19. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,339

    sdluck
    Member

  20. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,339

    sdluck
    Member

    Kinsler and hilborn pills flow slightlly different fro meach other
     
  21. rotten johnny
    Joined: Mar 14, 2009
    Posts: 535

    rotten johnny
    Member
    from Mi

    The main and the select a jet pills are all kinsler
     
  22. rotten johnny
    Joined: Mar 14, 2009
    Posts: 535

    rotten johnny
    Member
    from Mi

    Thanks for the link sd luck. Can I use a secondary type canister or would I need to use that hi speed valve shown in that link
    If I do the hi speed leanout,would i start at 45 # when it starts blubbering or go to say a 55 and work down,so I dont lean it too muck. How sensitive is it not to get to lean,just dont want to nip any pistons
     
  23. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,339

    sdluck
    Member

    Are there any sprint car shops around your area, they should be able to help you with that set up. I am at work ,all my info is at home,so if you get hungup I could ck at home.
    I bought hi speed and secondary bypasses of e bay pretty cheap.
    I am getting parts together to run hilborns on the street on a small block chevy.
    Is you pump a belt drive or off the timing cover?
     
  24. rotten johnny
    Joined: Mar 14, 2009
    Posts: 535

    rotten johnny
    Member
    from Mi

    Runs off a belt. Dont know any FI roundys around here,I am in ann arbor Mi area,any hambs know of any?
     
  25. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,247

    oj
    Member

    WhitePunk is right, the system is flowed for alcohol. You trying to run gas? If you have alcohol then do a 'leak down' on the barrell valve, they'll advise about 25% which is fat, i'd set about 15%; i'm thinking blade angle .010? a bit more, not much since you've got eight of them. That should get the barrell valve into the ballpark. You should take it apart so you'll understand what it is doing when it roll around. It can make the engine blubbery as you described if it is leading the throttle blades. The other things to check is the poppet, poppett springs - don't worry about 'tuning' with a 1lb shim or anything, just get into the ballpark first. With alcohol and motor size i'm thinking the main pill would be anywhere from mid 80's thru low 100's. I've done a couple gas motors but don't recall - i'm thinking gas injectors for that size motor would probably be a .020 and that is why WhitePunk is thinking alcohol.
     
  26. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,351

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma

    one thing i want to throw out there for you regarding setting pressures on your bypasses. Only use ONE set of blowoff gages to set your pressure. regardless of whether that gage is 10lbs off, you are using that gage as a relative tuning aide to your motor. I knew a few guys that I raced with who would tell the engine builder what they were running for pressure and he would tell them to change it based on what they told him they were running. they could never get it to run right until they started only tuning to their gage.
     
  27. rotten johnny
    Joined: Mar 14, 2009
    Posts: 535

    rotten johnny
    Member
    from Mi

    Im sorry I did not mention,I am running gas not alky. Are the injectors alky type being their 280s?
     
  28. rotten johnny
    Joined: Mar 14, 2009
    Posts: 535

    rotten johnny
    Member
    from Mi

    The gauge Im using is a snap on,from a fuel injection kit
     
  29. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,351

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma

    so this was a complete fuel injection system from a running car that didn't include a a secondary jet at all?? hmm would have thought it would be just about impossible to get it street running without one. you will almost definately need both the S-jet and the hi speed bypass to pull this off.
     
  30. sdluck
    Joined: Sep 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,339

    sdluck
    Member

    How do you guys know the system is flowed for alky, I believe that injector is recommend for a 400 ci engine on gas with a 150 0 pump, but will ck again when I get home. Does the fuel pump has the same drive ratio as on the other motor. What spool is in the barrell valve the hase codes for them.
    http://www.hilborninjection.com/tech-support.asp
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.