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Technical ***May 2021 Banger Meet Thread - Great Shop Weather***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, May 1, 2021.

  1. The 30 taper is larger. I found this out when I put a 37 banjo wheel on my roadster. I reamed the banjo wheel to fit. Not sure what year the tapers changed.
    panhead_pete and winduptoy like this.
  2. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 670

    Dave Renner does quality work,stands behind his products and will actually talk to you..
    Carter likes this.
  3. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 670


    I learned a few things building this car, one is to accept imperfection...the other, more important one is how to build a car. Next time its body and paint , then chassis. .Eat your vegetables first, then have the ice cream, like your mom told you. thumbnail - 2021-05-23T200447.985.jpg
  4. Nope! That's Ron Mosher's car! My car is not set up for standing starts; it's purely a "Road Racing" car! (moreover, I don't leave the microphone during the Time Trials)
  5. This is Jack Dewar's Hobby Shop! Max McLain who broke the crank in his Jenkins headed B block; is putting in a borrowed Riley 4 Port engine for the Santa Margarita F.A.S.T. Time Trials next month! Max'sEngine.jpg
    GuyW, Jet96, v8flat44 and 3 others like this.
  6. Both engines in the picture are absolutely beautiful. One day I'd like to make the drive up from Lompoc to come pick your brains!!
    Old Dawg likes this.
  7. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 606


    BORROWED ! To race !!
    Now that’s what Id call a FRIEND !!
    Hope he does great.
    Do you have any info on who makes that FRONT engine mount (aluminum?) ?

    I never understood what people loved about in diamonds... until I look at an engine like this Riley !!
    Thanks for the burning rubber explanation.
    Old Dawg likes this.
  8. RCB1
    Joined: Aug 31, 2014
    Posts: 27


    Hello all. Not sure if I qualify to be here. But short of the story, my wife and I bought her grandfathers/uncles 29 A tudor they bought when they were teens late 50s/60s. It was mostly restored in the 90s. My wife wants to keep it stockish, but she is keen on the idea of period hop ups for a variety of reasons. She's been eyeing the Roof OHV setup, but it is likely overkill for tooling around town. Anyhow, learning about period performance and am reading the materials at the beginning of this thread. I can't see going completely nuts on mods, but I'm just tickled she has an interest in this. She's never had much interest in any of my projects.

    So quick question, even though the return on an OHV setup like the Roof 101 Cyclone or others would be minimal on a basically stock engine, would it be more trouble than it's worth? I think for her, it's mostly the appearance but she likes that it's from the same time (well, reproduction, but still) and some of the history. I like the tank like reliability of a flathead. This is a different world than what I'm used to. I'm learning as fast as I can, but many recommended I find this thread even though I think this probably isn't up to the goal of this thread.
    97 likes this.
  9. alexiskai
    Joined: May 25, 2021
    Posts: 3


    Hi, question about installing the Winfield 7:1 crowfoot head (Buttermore remake edition) on a stock engine with good babbitt. Using a Nu-Rex centrifugal advance. This starts you at 0°, 10° advance at idle, and maxes out at 29°. I've seen a number of comments around the internet warning not to go that high with the 7:1. I've seen 26, 24, even 22 mentioned as the maximum.

    So first, does anyone have direct experience with detonation on this head at a given degree BTDC? Second, if 29° is too much, would I be better off (a) adjusting the baseline timing to, say, 5° ATDC, which would put the maximum at 25°, or (b) using the spark control rod to back off 5° (or whatever amount) once underway? Option (b) seems more effective but also creates the risk that you forget to adjust it and damage the bearings.
  10. Getting ready to drop the new rebuilt motor in the 32.....yeah I know, been saying that for years......

    What things caused you grief or do I need to have on hand. Same Tranny but with a lightened flywheel and v8 clutch. Assume I am an idiot, because in doing this..... I am.
  11. IMG_0689.jpg
    looks like it will work with a clamp then a 45 degree to exit before the tire.
    Retson the Racer likes this.
  12. Reddy
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 155


    Harditmesainit, The cover in this picture was made by Pat Gary, of Paso Robles. Come out June 26 and see Pat and his little Yellow run and I'll have my 1930 pickup running my engine with his cover + other parts makes. More car at the met will engine parts that Pat has made Mike Reddy FromLompoc
    Old Dawg and Retson the Racer like this.
  13. Reddy
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 155


    Sorry I forgot tell you, It at the Santa Margarita Ranch In the small town of Santa Margarita. June 26 2021 you can see Pat 's engine running on the track and have fun, with a 4 banger. He will have his little yellow roadster pickup running for fun Mike
    Old Dawg likes this.
  14. G_Don
    Joined: Feb 17, 2017
    Posts: 35


    IMG_7390.JPG IMG_7391.JPG IMG_7388.JPG 64290969669__5D2493AA-FE74-43C9-9AD7-0E80026721A9.JPG IMG_7411.JPG IMG_7387.JPG

    Pulled the head on my A two weeks ago and saw all this. There was a bunch of dirt in the water jackets of both the head and block. I pulled the pan and made sure nothing was damaged. I basically just cleaned everything up, put on a new oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket, and put new rotella 15w /40 oil in. Half of the studs came out when I pulled the head so I replaced 12 of them (the ones that got pulled out, and the ones that were not fully seated, when I pulled the head).

    It was driving before I pulled the head, but I noticed it didn’t seem to have much power and would stall a lot. (Although I’m thinking this was associated with the stock A carb that had a stuck float) more so than the dirty water jackets.

    My question is, what could cause such dirty water jackets? I’ve talked to a few guys that said they have never seen that before. The engine appears to be an older rebuild, miles unknown, there is a ridge at the top of each cylinder but the cylinder walls look clean with a slight crosshatch.

    I have a Thomas aluminum head back home in New Jersey (I live in San Diego now), would it be beneficial to have my father ship it and replace the old head with the aluminum Thomas? I’m going to run a single 97 and headers, and a brown cap Mallory. Would the aluminum head help anything?

    Thanks in advance, that 4 port Riley sure is a thing of beauty.

    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
  15. two coupes
    Joined: Aug 11, 2009
    Posts: 46

    two coupes

    By the color of the exhaustvalves in 2nd and 3rd cylinder and also in the head, I can tell that you had a coolant leak between 2nd and 3rd cylinder, probably by the oval waterjacket (common spot, been there myself)
    Old Dawg likes this.
  16. I'd go flathead - all easy bolt on stuff unless you're going cam deep. Overhead will look stunning with an open hood but will be a whole engine build.

    Starting with a stock car, I'd up the final drive, fit a downdraft inlet with a 97, add a high compression head;- and make sure the brakes worked! Then go out and have some fun whilst you plan the next engine build...
    Old Dawg and RCB1 like this.
  17. Ship it.
    I have a Thomas head on one of my diamond B engines. Love it. Lovely smooth running engine.
    Well, truth be told, it was until I ran a rod last August. But after twelve years of ragging on it in three different cars and thousands of miles - I'll forgive it. I can hardly blame the head when my feet are so heavy.
    Jet96 and Old Dawg like this.
  18. PhredH
    Joined: Feb 28, 2015
    Posts: 97


    I have used various advance curves, including the NuRex device, with my 7:1 Lion III head. I found the NuRex gyroscope auto advance to have too wide of an advance curve for my engine, but I also have a handful of internal engine mods. Too much total advance when having a BTDC base timing and a lack of "snappiness" if an ATDC base timing is used to limit the total advance.

    I did something similar to your option (b) by placing a clamp/obstruction on the advance quadrant of the steering column to limit total manual advance while having a "better" BTDC base timing. This made the NuRex device work better for me.

    If the bottom end of your engine is basically stock, the above effects may be less noticable.

    Your seat time and tinkering will give the best results as each of these engines seems to be a unique critter.

    Hope this helps.
    Jet96, winduptoy and alexiskai like this.
  19. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 670


    Performance is a sum of all parts, the return from the Roof on a stock engine is good, on a modified engine its better.

    The phillips (nu rex) gyro advance is a good idea in theory but limited in practice, you are stuck with the curve you get. Mechanical advance distributors can be adjusted for the right curve, it takes a distributor machine and some patience. Ideal timing is 1 degree advance per 100 rpm. If you want reliable timing and performance get rid of the nu rex and run an FSI,get the 40k coil too and then start thinking about adding fuel and a cam.. :) 20180729_165037.jpg
    Old Dawg likes this.
  20. alexiskai
    Joined: May 25, 2021
    Posts: 3


    Yeah yeah, I know. Right now I'm trying to get the coupe back on the road and just drive it for awhile.

    Would switching to 93 octane give me a few more degrees of safe advance? Might be worth it if I could use the Nu-Rex as is.
  21. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 670


    Just don't flog it,you'll be fine.Detonation effect increases with the engine under load.

    Me? I like flogging it once in a while,makes it fun..
    Old Dawg likes this.
  22. Kevin Pharis
    Joined: Aug 22, 2020
    Posts: 224

    Kevin Pharis

    Save your money... by regular! The octane rating is fairly insignificant as it’s only a few points. The real difference is in the burn rate of the fuel. Modern pump gas differences are about rpm range, not detonation prevention. You will need to by aviation or similar industrial gas if you want high octane and slow burn rate
    alexiskai likes this.
  23. If you are not having a detonation issue, there is no need to try and fix it.
    Higher Octane fuels are not necessarily the answer, burn rate and vapor pressure of the fuel are.
    If you have increased the CR, you will need to reduce the amount of timing, the condition of the individual engine will dictate how much. Also, think about the rings on the pistons. If oil is getting by them, the charge is contaminated and typically oil will cause detonation.
    Some years ago I had conversations with a Gentleman who had added CR and a harmonic balancer. In the convo, he confessed the HB did nothing in reducing the vibration of the engine and wanted to remove it. We discussed all the mods and I asked him to do an experiment. It revolved around reducing the total amount of advance in the dist. When finished, he removed the HB and had a much better running motor, smoother, faster and better mileage.
    His ended up being around 22degrees total at 1800 and 6 or 8 at idle.

    BTW, adding a little tolulene to the fuel will increase octane and tend to reduce the burn rate, or so I am told.

  24. alexiskai
    Joined: May 25, 2021
    Posts: 3


    The Winfield head is not on the road yet – I'm thinking ahead to try to avoid detonation issues before I have them. I know the Nu-Rex tops out at 29°, so if the consensus were that one should definitely not exceed 22°, I'd want to know that before I take it for a spin.
  25. You may be reading something into this, I don't want you to think 22 deg's is the magic number.
    Every engine will be different, condition, configuration and expected outcome.
    There are many factors to take into account and even something as simple as the indexing of the pulley and pointer can have quite a bit of effect, TDC may be off by 4-5 deg's.
    What I am getting to is that you will have to make some observations and adjust accordingly. The original design was made to be very lenient when it came to running and this at the cost of performance.

  26. panhead_pete
    Joined: Feb 22, 2006
    Posts: 2,805


    HI fellas

    Is there a difference in Model A and Model B points?
  27. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 606


    Hey Mike,
    THANKS for the invite ! Sounds like my idea of FUN !
    Yup.... Pat Gary. Should have known Pat was maker. He is such a talented guy !!
    Give him a piece of metal and a CNC machine and something beautiful happens !
    It would be nice to visit with all you guys !
    Am hoping that some RV provision or hotel is nearby ?
    Old Dawg likes this.
  28. There are no hotels or motels in the village of Santa Margarita. So far the Ranch management has not allowed RV overnight parking! There's a vacant lot (looks to be near an acre) on the corner of El Camino (Old Highway 101 & Yerba Buena) a couple of blocks from the ranch entrance. I've seen a lot of trucks, rigs and const. equipt. temporarily parked there. Although overnight street parking for RV's is probably illegal; it's also a probability, due to the remoteness of Santa Margarita; one won't be
    hassled. That of course if you don't park in front or on someone's residential premises!

    SantaMargarita(2).jpg SantaMargarita.jpg

    Atascadero is the nearest city. If you're a member of the Elks parking is probably available!

    I've previously mentioned that told that Friday (the 25th) Santa Margarita will host a "Cruise Night". Doubtless a party will break out! I'll keep everybody abreast of developments as they occur. Easiest way is to pre-register!

    BTW that shiny Riley-Model B engine belongs to Phil Farber! Phil and Max share the driving of Max's roadster.
    Last edited: May 27, 2021
  29. TWSTR
    Joined: Mar 25, 2016
    Posts: 29


    Hi everyone - Today's finding made me scratching my head. I own a G28 4Banger. I opened the valve cover to check the lubrication system and made an interesting discovery. There're no drill holes in the main oil line. The G28 definetly got oil pressurized camshaft and crankshaft bearings. Did I overlooked some? Does anyone got a clue how the oil runs and how I'm able to check the system? Thanks a lot and many greetings from Germany.

    Daniel IMG_20210527_162006.jpeg IMG_20210527_162016.jpeg IMG_20210527_162006.jpeg

    Sent from my LYA-L09 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
  30. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,210

    from middle ca.

    model "T" has the end that works .

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