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Marching to a Banger beat - The March 2014 Banger Meet

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by RichFox, Mar 2, 2014.

  1. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,830

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Since no one else has started a March Banger thread I guess I will. For those who remember my Dodge Bros. banger with the Morton & Brett head and wondered what happened to it. The rear exhaust port on the head fell apart when we went to start it. After more than a year trying to get it repaired, I gave up. Here is Zenon and my thoughts on a new Small block MoPar head for the thing. lots of cutting and welding before this one fits. But at least it's aluminum. So the welding is much more readily done. PS. If you like the injection, I will gladly sell you the other half. I bought a V8 set for the MoPar head. Pretty cool.
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2014
  2. well good luck with it - March on - brother....
     
  3. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 960

    johnneilson
    Member

    Very cool Rich, can you throw out some flow numbers?

    J
     
  4. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 3,351

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    Put a pair of remote battery posts on my banger powered lakester as the battery is really hard to get to.
     
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  5. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,830

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  6. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 960

    johnneilson
    Member

    Rich,
    pretty nice setup.
    the chambers look good.
    how much HP do you expect?

    j


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  7. hugh m
    Joined: Jul 18, 2007
    Posts: 2,148

    hugh m
    Member
    from ct.

    The bottom end of that motor is pretty stout, I would guess? Neat project.
     
  8. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,830

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    After spending much time and money on the Morton & Brett head, all I want is for it to run. The M&B has gone to a new home in Montana. And it is still causing trouble.
     
  9. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,340

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma


    you are a sick sick man rich and I mean that with the utmost respect.....

    You already know how I feel on this subject!
     
  10. WOW, back to some serious stuff !!
     
  11. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 960

    johnneilson
    Member

    Rich,

    From a well known racer, "vintage junk" pretty much describes it.
    Al I know is that if it wasn't for JB weld, my motor would be air cooled, if you know what I mean.

    John
     
  12. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,830

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It would have been cool. Not to fast, but cool. That head was heart breaking to work with. Good luck to Pete and crew. I don't think they want to race it. But do want it working.
     
  13. Jiminy
    Joined: Oct 25, 2012
    Posts: 330

    Jiminy
    Member

    Here is the banger link list .


    For the HAMB banger newbies, here are some links to a lot of banger info:

    Flat Ernie maintains the monthly link list. Every month is listed:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=161498



    Banger basics. another info link list:

    http://www.fordgarage.com/

    http://www.plucks329s.org/index.htm

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=251717

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=42480

    Post #105 of link below shows flywheel lightening dimensions
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...=470853&page=6

    Model B rod bearing insert numbers
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...84#post6992484


    Engine tuning with a Vacuum gauge
    http://www.centuryperformance.com/tu...e-spg-148.html

    Adjusting dual Strombergs:
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...61#post6638461

    Helpful Model A tools and tips:

    http://www.maurer-markus.ch/ford_a/tipps.index.en.html

    Gary in MN's late model Malory distributor conversion for A/B engine:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...&postcount=109

    Elrod's stuck head tech:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=218487

    Model A generator to alternator conversion:

    http://ejwhitneyco.com/automotive.html

    Gear ratio / speed and RPM calculator:

    http://www.accuautoparts.com/calculator.php


    Model A master cylinder mounting bracket ideas:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...73#post4953173

    Go here to read the 1931 edition of Harry Ricardo's book "The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine"

    http://www.scribd.com/full/40610101?...icdancrnxypd05


    Chevy Banger Stuff

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=463465

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/22469332/T...e-Ricardo-1931

    Post 198 starts a great discussion of the shape of a flat head combustion chamber

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...470853&page=10

    Maybe these links should be posted early in each months meeting.

    If anyone knows of more, please post them.
     
  14. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 960

    johnneilson
    Member

  15. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 6,979

    noboD
    Member

    Rich I applaud your enthusiasm. It doesn't sound like you've ever done anything the easy way. And I DO mean that in a good way.
     
  16. Hello all,
    New to the banger forum here, always admired from the distance as been mostly a inline 6 and V8 type of guy.
    But the last few months owing a Ford Model a banger has become a slowly spreading disease,,,
    Well yesterday I finally picked up this early 28 motor (has a different clutch I have been told as later motors have)
    Been sitting behind a farmers shed at least 20 years, expected the worst but found it great behind the tons of oil/dirt/tar stuck to the outside after taking it to a car wash.
    The head was sitting a few mm off the block so expected a huge rusted mess, after using degreaser and CRC/WD40 finally pulled the head off and found a great rebuilder by the look of it :)
    Sump is too far gone but the remainder looks ok.
    Question,
    Cleaned off one of the pistons looking for a oversize stamp,, found none and just a stamp saying "Front". Do all early pistons show oversize on piston crown or do I have a never been rebuilt motor?
    Canadian motor if that helps.
     

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  17. Could well be stock bore - my diamond B block is. Whereas my early '28 block has been sleeved back and rebored to plus 30 and the sleeves are now 12 thou out of round….

    Is yours a 5-bearing cam block?
     
  18. I will find out in the next few days after I get the clutch/flywheel off and on my engine stand, been reading that it should have the 5 cam bearings.
    Don't know if that is good or bad if it is 5 bearings, also has the different diamond shape crank as I found looking in through the breather after I removed it.
    Cannot complain, was only $100 and a few hours work getting it out into my trailer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
  19. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,135

    Crazydaddyo
    Member


    Rich,
    Looks like a fun project. I believe it will make more power then the M&B head. Please keep us up to date on each step of the process. I'm interested in how you will deal with the head studs. Thanks for sharing

    .
     
  20. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,830

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The plan is to bore through the head in the locations of the existing studs. Weld in 1 inch 6061 bars that are drilled 33/64. On the intake side a one inch plate will be bolted to the manifold face of the now stretched head, surfaced with the heads deck and and drilled for four stud holes. A 1.125 spacer will need to be put in the center of the head to get the cylinders and combustion chambers to line up. It will also be drilled for a head stud. Seems like it should work. Oh yeah. The plate on the intake side will also provide an adapter for the Hilborn injector shown. Although I bought a MoPar small block set, it is for the W9 race heads. The blot spacing is wider than the shown head and the ports bigger. This thing has 2 5/8 throttle bores. If anybody wants the other side it's for sale. Hilborn feather lite. Magnesium casting. Just what your banger needs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
  21. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,135

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    I certainly can be done. Bill Stipe did it to a SBC head, and I have an Olds 455 head that George Miller adapted too. Both for the A/B block.

    .
     

  22. the clutch looks like a standard model a to me
    the early ones have a way different flywheel than that
    tk
     
  23. I'm subscribed....

    You know! After thinking about it: Have any of you guys thought of putting together a Ford 4-banger (T, A or B), with 2 up and 2 down? Ed Winfield and Art Sparks, back in the 20's, did it with stunning results. Sparks maintained that it eliminated the phenomena of two intake valves, with the Ford Siamesed intakes, open at the same time.

    I'm not going to try it on my engines, as I've got too many bucks tied up in cranks and cams which are ground out of hunks of billet, at unbelievable expense!
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
  24. modelAsteve
    Joined: Jan 9, 2009
    Posts: 342

    modelAsteve
    Member

    The Winfield 2 up/ 2 down motor is alive and well at Rick Rawlins in So-Cal. He put a lot of time and $ into getting it running. Took a long to find someone to balance it correctly. He is vintage racing it in a repop of Ed's sprint car. Can somebody add more info?
     
  25. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,830

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I looked at the 455 Olds head. Liked it a lot. Didn't you have to use a billet cam to make up for the different intake and exhaust sequence? Zenon really liked the 318 type of head. Don't know why. But the valve sequence was right and it is easier to adapt existing fuel injection manifolds to the LA type head.
     
  26. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,135

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Yes, special cam need for the Olds head.

    .
     
  27. von Dyck
    Joined: Apr 12, 2007
    Posts: 678

    von Dyck
    Member

    My "think so" on 5 bearing camshaft blocks is that the 5 bearings produce a more stable camshaft thereby improving valve timing accuracy when compared with a 3 bearing cam block. However, some say the 5 bearing block is not as strong as the 3 bearing.
     
  28. bdave_mcc
    Joined: Feb 6, 2013
    Posts: 50

    bdave_mcc
    Member

    Banger experts, I am a new guy to the bangers. I am working on a "hop up" to my model a roadster. I am planning to run a 7:1 Winfield head, dual carb setup, header, cam, etc. Currently I have the head, I have an intake but am waiting on carbs. My question can i install and run the head without any other mods while I gather up the rest of my parts or do I need to wait and do it all together. Ive heard I would need a different carb and intake setup to make the high comp head run, but thought I would check with the experienced guys on here. Thanks in advance.
     
  29. 117harv
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 6,592

    117harv
    Member

    I ran across his banger today, can someone help with an I.D./year? That's a model T cross member next to it.
     

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  30. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 960

    johnneilson
    Member

    The Stewart clan seet a record at Bonneville last year with a flat head banger using the stock port configuration. To address the 1-2 rich/lean they used a full sequential EFI. It was nice to see a 3 bearing motor with Winfield head run that fast.
     

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