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Technical ***March 2019 Banger Meet - Pot O'Gold Info***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. JT1930
    Joined: Jul 1, 2018
    Posts: 119

    JT1930
    Member

    Nutrocker. So fregin cool !!!
     
    nutrocker likes this.
  2. blgitn
    Joined: Sep 13, 2011
    Posts: 104

    blgitn
    Member

    Very cool nutrocker!!
     
  3. utahdodge
    Joined: Sep 13, 2008
    Posts: 162

    utahdodge
    Member

    [​IMG]

    New to bangers here, hoping for a little more help. I went to a great auction with a ton of prewar car parts and pieces. I bought an entire shed and these manifolds were in the pile inside. Is the top set for a Ford? I think the intake looks correct, but haven’t seen an exhaust with heat sinks like these. Aftermarket?


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  4. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,044

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    utahdodge : The "upper set" is indeed an aftermarket unit for an "A" or "B" motor : your "heat sink" is actually the heater core : there was a shroud over it, & the motor's fan forced air through the shroud(& over those "heat sinks"), & into the passenger compartment through a hole in the firewall that was in line with this unit. There were several manufacturers, as a non-heated Model "A" can be "Brutal" in the winter!! In the picture the unit is upside down. The lower unit is also an "A"-"B" heater, just the exhaust manifold section without the intake. Both of these would have had a shroud, or housing, over them to direct the heated air into the passenger compartment(see above in this) post.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
  5. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,086

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    A Model A was brutal in the winter WITH this heater. It was my driver growing up. Got it in 1950 at age 15. No defrost, minimal heat off the manifold. Drove with a windshield scraper always at hand. Parked on the street a half block from my house on steep hill. That’s how I got it started on winter mornings.
     
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  6. utahdodge
    Joined: Sep 13, 2008
    Posts: 162

    utahdodge
    Member

  7. Belcher Engineering made the head. That one sat under my bed for a few years but I decided not to use it. Cheaper to keep the valves where god and Henry intended...
     
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  8. nutrocker
    Joined: Jan 12, 2007
    Posts: 307

    nutrocker
    Member

    Sorry for the late reply.

    The brakes are stock rod jobbies, they work ok but planning on going through them, fixing any play etc.

    The head was made by a UK company. Although quite nicely machined the design of the combustion chamber, valve placement and intake port were far from ideal. For now I’m just welding up the ports and moving them to a more downdraft style. I’m not going to spend too much time, other than the 10 hours welding, the several hours fly cutting and then surface grinding plus many hours cutting the ports in, as the head isn’t worth the efforts but instead I’m starting to work out the details of my own head that’ll be based on something from the past but with better flow and internal components

    The two faces will have a ground finish and I’ll use a two pac epoxy to hold them together.

    Cheers, Pete.
     
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  9. JT1930
    Joined: Jul 1, 2018
    Posts: 119

    JT1930
    Member

    Rts trans mocked up to the Mac’s bellhousing and tail plate. Only had to notch the front of the cross member but looks like I won’t have to mess with the mechanical brake cross bar. If anything maybe shim it down an 1/8”. Torque tube and shaft are getting shortened but a shop in Massachusetts. Radius arms are cut but not welded yet until I get the tube back. Trans shaft is getting splined by my local machinist this weekend also. Should be good to go by the end of the month then it’s motor clean up tome. New gaskets and got a Winfield head from “hardtomesaintit”. Appreciate it very much. Had to clean the cast up a bit before it all gets painted red.

    D1410563-291E-479E-ABB4-64E17642DE8D.jpeg

    42F066F6-A44D-4529-8564-4998B9F88F96.jpeg
     
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  10. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 1,454

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Well I guess it might be time to say something.
    I just got booking confirmation on 20 Sterling Damper flywheels to ship to me from UK.
    vibrationfree.co.uk
    I'm going to have some available...though there is still lots of details to work out...like packing/boxing for shipping.
    I was impressed with the results of the one I installed on my A engine that I run in the Cabriolet. It has a welded on counterbalanced A crank. The butt dyno told me that the engine vibrations greatly reduced and I could rev the engine to a higher RPM confidently. I want to get some others out in a test bed.
    The set up gives you a torsional absorber.
    I am going to be quiet and elusive on some details at this time as there are things that I want to state with confidence and I won't know that until I have product in hand. It has been a long time coming about.
    Pricing should be less than a new counterbalanced crankshaft...or a broken crankshaft

    Three weights to choose from
    Heavy: 64 pound
    Light Weight: 33 pound
    Racing: 22 pound
    Set up for V8 clutch

    Arrival state side about a month + out....slow boat
    I'll have a selection at the Hotrod Dirt Drags in Colorado, is the plan...save shipping was the thought
    Larry
     
  11. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 308

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey fil,
    Cheaper...that is funny, indeed ! Never heard that sentiment, when talking banger equipment !
    Hm, maybe I should have listened to you decades ago. Would be tons of $ ahead to have left things as Henry made them. Alas , who does that..lol
     
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  12. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 308

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey Pete,
    Your skills and abilities are pretty apparent and plentiful ! Keep at it, and let us see more pictures of your skills in action !
    Well, I have a TWO piece aluminum custom OHV 4-Port (Riley clone). Just wondering if same guy made both your/mine. Now I know. Is that two part epoxy....an aircraft developed product ? The guy who made my 4 port, was VERY prolific head builder and made a seemingly infinite / complex variety. Ive seen many of his creations, but never got to ask him how his heads were fastened. His retirement from building such creations left a huge hole in that area of needed old aftermarket equipment. He was a genius at what he did, IMO , like making dual overhead cam heads carved from alum...out of his imagination !

    BTW Pete,
    Sounds/looks like you could pretty much make any design head you put your skills to !
    How do you rate a Dual OHV Head , as far as for making POWER on a banger ?
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  13. motorcade 1
    Joined: Jun 25, 2010
    Posts: 57

    motorcade 1
    Member

    I am building a speedster in my travels to procure parts and pieces I obtained a HAL dual overhead cam setup now before any one gets to excited I have to say its Rough been in a garage with a lack of weather proof roof for many years. With that being said I believe its pretty much there except valves springs cups the chain case is broke I have both pieces intake has 2 Winfield side drafts water pump and mag drive are there external oil pump is there.I have the rest of the engine its a B pistons are stuck cylinder walls rusty nos pistons. no pictures on my computer yet.I don't have the funds to rehab it to running condition I am sure someone here has the skill and patience to bring it back to life. I have pics on my phone I can send to someone if interested in a purchase .
     
  14. nutrocker
    Joined: Jan 12, 2007
    Posts: 307

    nutrocker
    Member

    Thank you for the compliment.
    Do you have any photos of your head, interested to see it. The overhead valve design is generally good especially if it’s cross flow. The design of the intake path and how the gasses pass over and around the valve can be greatly improved by downdraft design and keeping the port from bending too much.
    When I got my head it was joined with RTV, an engine silicone sealant. It didn’t leak at all and worked fine.
     
  15. nutrocker
    Joined: Jan 12, 2007
    Posts: 307

    nutrocker
    Member

    Wow! Very interested in seeing photos of the head, plus all it’s associated parts. It was this style of head I was thinking about replicating,
     
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  16. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 308

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    I've sent you a message concerning your interest. Thanks
     
  17. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 308

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey Pete,
    Yeah, I can issue you some pictures !
    You want them via HAMB, or ??
     
  18. nutrocker
    Joined: Jan 12, 2007
    Posts: 307

    nutrocker
    Member

    Message sent.
     
  19. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 308

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey Pete,
    Hope you get these pictures of my Riley 4- Port crossflow aluminum head.
    It was made in the 1980s, and not run to date.
    I have been sitting on it, waiting,
    Hey Pete,
    Evidently, you know aluminum....as in welding, heads, etc...
    Wondering if you are just as knowledgible about old cast iron , heads....'repair' ?
     
  20. nutrocker
    Joined: Jan 12, 2007
    Posts: 307

    nutrocker
    Member

    Thank you, I got the photos. It’s a nice looking head, and beautifully polished etc. What size are the valves in the head and what size exhaust valve will you use?

    I have some knowledge of cast iron, but I mainly work with tig, which isn’t the best for cast iron. What repair does it need?
     
  21. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 308

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey Pete, thanks.
    So, I've got this original cast iron Schofield OHV Head. It is complete and was completely rebuilt and never run.
    I loaned it to a guy to replicate, for his business.
    Long story short, I got it back from UPS...in a cardboard box....with a hole in the end outer casting. Not huge, nor affecting any mating surface. But, worthless unless it can be fixed. That's where my question to you came in.
    I've had it stored away for some time, and it's time to either be fixed or stripped of all its' rebuilt parts and salvaged.
    Q: is that kind of thing (cast iron) brazed or ??

    As far as answering your alum OHV Qs.
    ALL of the involved valves (eight intake in head, and four exhaust in block) are standard issue Model A size !
     
  22. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 1,454

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've repaired cast iron multiple ways. Do you have a picture of the head with the hole in it?
    Do you have the piece that broke out of the head?
    Larry

    Sent from my XT1254 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  23. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 308

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    IMG_1448 (1).JPG IMG_1448.JPG IMG_1448 (1).JPG IMG_1448 (1).JPG IMG_1448.JPG IMG_1448.JPG
    Hey Larry,
    Thanks for the assist. I’ll show you pics. Yeah, I did find a couple broken pieces
    In the cardboard box.
    I’ve read about cast iron repair. You know what ‘they’ say about reading too much...ha.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  24. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 1,454

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    htimes...that is a real shame. It looks like a technically difficult repair to execute, especially if you don't have all the pieces.
    The void is the water jacket and there is a sealing surface that is missing, at least from the photo. I hope that you filed a claim and had a conversation with your chum that he owes you a head when he gets the castings done.
    That said, the way that I would approach the repair would be to clean the repair area clean, clean, clean and fit pieces back together. Then the cracks need to be V grooved. Then the head needs to be placed in an oven (and I no longer have an oven or a hot bench) to preheat the casting. I usually preheat to 800-900 degrees F. Then the assembly needs to be torch welded with nickle rod while maintaining the part at or close to oven exit temperature (hot bench). Then the repaired part needs to go back in the oven for a timed cool down over 48 hours or so. Then the head should be magnafluxed. If it crack free there would be machining to restore mating surfaces. Uniform preheat and post cooling are critical. A variable is the quality and cleanliness of the casting...it is probably a positive if it has really never been run on an engine.
    There are other ways to add fill material but preheat and post cooling are the secret to a successful repair.....now if only one of us had a 3D printer...
    Let us know
    Larry
     
  25. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,822

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    what caused that ? freezing ?
     
  26. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 308

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey Larry,
    Wow, listening to you describe proper tech/procedure, is to remember everything that I've read about such repairs.
    Thanks much for taking time to tutor / teach...all makes sense !

    However, time has passed and this head has been stored away too long. Same time has not been good to me either. I'm headed up to Bakersfield swap next month (maybe). If I can get head up into truck (one armed), I'll take it with other stuff to pass on to next guys. I'm only 75, but suddenly realize, time to change. I've often wondered if I could/would go on with old iron forever...it just felt right ! Then 'life gets in the way' of everything. In my case, I'll change my ways...but slowly as can. Hate to hire / having other people doing my work and hate being told what I can't do. Now they want to put the old iron...IN ME , ha !!

    Giving up, giving in.....never !! Just listening more closely to good advice.

    One project that I cannot bring myself to shed, is one that I must also farm out to me finished.
    Here's a pic(s) for you... IMG_1968.JPG IMG_1971.JPG
     
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  27. nutrocker
    Joined: Jan 12, 2007
    Posts: 307

    nutrocker
    Member

    That engine looks amazing, but getting old sucks.
    Good luck with getting the engine finished.
     
  28. junk yard kid
    Joined: Nov 11, 2007
    Posts: 2,713

    junk yard kid
    Member

    I was wondering what you OHV guys are running for initial timing. My FSI distributor has 30 degrees advance to it and if i want 28 total that brings me to 2 degrees retarded. It seems to idle great and has better throttle response when set at 5-8 degrees initial. But havent gotten a vacuum gauge I havent driven it like this though as i dont want detonation. Not sure if i could even hear it with straight exhaust.

    Has anybody changed the amount of advance in a FSI distributor?
     
  29. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 108

    railcarmover

    [​IMG]
    scotchbrite fine disc on die grinder to take off casting flash,wool pad and rouge on diegrinder to polish..
     
  30. JT1930
    Joined: Jul 1, 2018
    Posts: 119

    JT1930
    Member

    Railcar that looking good !!!! I’m painting mine and the motor all red. Thanks for the top though
     

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