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Technical ***March 2019 Banger Meet - Pot O'Gold Info***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 308

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey kid,
    I use a number of 81s.
    Upon assembling, I soak the pump (material) in very light oil, such as sewing machine oil.
    They 'break in" well this way and pump very well....no sticking.
     
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  2. junk yard kid
    Joined: Nov 11, 2007
    Posts: 2,713

    junk yard kid
    Member

    How long are you soaking them?


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  3. Binger
    Joined: Apr 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,558

    Binger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from wyoming

    Checking in for the month. Not much new happening in Cheyoming. waiting for some warm temps to come back.
     
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  4. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 308

    hardtimesainit
    Member

     
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  5. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 108

    railcarmover

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Mocking up and fitting,fabbing another intake manifold,this time with a shared plenum/log style intake for the webers don't like the stromberg...performance is great,the damn thing sweats gasoline. B cam with .319 measured lift is ready,winfield head is ready..everything is ready but satisfaction with carburetion.
     
  6. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 308

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Post disappeared ??
    Well not ‘soaked’ , won’t hurt if you do.
    I apply to outside/ inside of leather. If rubber pump material, I put some oil onto pump well wall. Be certain pump well wall is clean and free of snags/contamination !

    Leather will darken....that is plenty oil to help it conform to pump well and to stay fresh.
    All my carb pumps work well with this process
     
  7. junk yard kid
    Joined: Nov 11, 2007
    Posts: 2,713

    junk yard kid
    Member

    I’ve always used a little motor oil or some grease. Bores are clean and snag free as far as I can tell. These things are jammed couldn’t move em at all with it hooked up and would have to really mash down on them with the top off. It was even really hard to yank them out.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app[​IMG][​IMG]
     
  8. 5280A2
    Joined: Sep 8, 2014
    Posts: 102

    5280A2

    Are you sure you have the correct pumps? Pumps for 81 carbs are smaller diameter than the 97/48 pumps. Sounds like yours are the bigger ones for the 97 or 48 Strombergs.
     
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  9. Jiminy
    Joined: Oct 25, 2012
    Posts: 311

    Jiminy
    Member

    No, your post ended up inside the quoted post you were replying to - click on it.

    Jim
     
  10. JT1930
    Joined: Jul 1, 2018
    Posts: 119

    JT1930
    Member

    Getting the motor ready for new gaskets all around and a Winfield 6.1 head. As I was cleaning found this surprise on the pistons. I knew it was rebuilt but thought standard pistons.

    Does anybody know what the stamping on the cam means. Stamped “G” is it stock or something else.

    06AAE165-6942-4CD5-8CC2-32F0067DA311.jpeg
     
  11. junk yard kid
    Joined: Nov 11, 2007
    Posts: 2,713

    junk yard kid
    Member

    I don’t think I’m strong enough for that.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  12. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 108

    railcarmover

    A cam lobe looks like an egg,a B cam lobe looks like a wood splitting maul..B cam has a fuel pump drive lobe.If your handy with calipers,the A cam measured lift is around .280,B cam measured runs from .302 to .319...Actual lift different than measured lift,measured is subtracting the narrowest point on the lobe from the widest.
     
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  13. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 308

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey kid,
    97 and 48 pumps are way bigger than 81 pumps. Neither would ever fit into an 81 pump well, and I'd bet against you being able to cram them in. ! Does sound like something is drastically wrong though. Maybe the pump lip got caught/snagged /torn, and tried to turn inside out.
    Did you buy pumps separately or were they in a carb kit ?
    I'd like to know/hear how you come out on this. I'm wondering if pumps are made inferior by freelance maker. Cannot see how a 'stromberg' made 81 pump could be made so that problems you are experiencing exist.
    FWIW, I do find that pumps for 81 are sold without kit on ebay .....
    Can you show picture of the pump (s) you take out. And, are both acting as cantankerous ?
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019
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  14. Ron Brown
    Joined: Jul 6, 2015
    Posts: 1,165

    Ron Brown
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Two words...Uncle Max...will be the answer to yer woes...
     
  15. junk yard kid
    Joined: Nov 11, 2007
    Posts: 2,713

    junk yard kid
    Member

    I have two 97’s from uncle max and can attest to the quality, but I’ve done well messing with Strombergs. They are simple and I can remove the emulsion tubes and other stuff so why not.

    I was joking about jamming the 97 pump in the 81. They size difference is easily visible.

    I got these pumps in the premium rebuild kits. I usually oil them upon install and try to get them in without the lip grabbing. But both of these are, when I yank them out it does look like the edges are grabbing. They look the same size as the old ones though I didn’t bother putting a caliper on them. After I got them started I literally could barley push these down with all my strength I could put on the pointy bastards. It’s not like it’s my first rodeo and I don’t remember it being a problem on initial install. In any case sanding them seems to have worked on the one. But even that took a bit, I sanded the lip off and it would slide down to the power valve easy but bring it up then it won’t go back down. Power valves where new and removed equaled same result.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  16. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,405

    97
    Member

    Check the diameter of the washer inside the leather. I had some supplied by the owner of a pair of carbs, where the washer was larger than those in the original 81 pump plunger.... they jammed just like yours . I only use Walker or Australian made Fuelmiser kits, have had issues with other brands, and being 8000 miles away from parts source in the USA is a pita for returns or replacements. I use linseed oil on all leather washers, immerse for about 15 mins. Just Don't leave linseed oil on a rag lying around , or even in the trash, it can start a fire through spontaneous combustion.
     
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  17. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 308

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Hey kid,
    Well, there is only one last thing that would make the problem that you describe. I did not mention it original post, as you have a very good idea what makes these carbs tick !

    Everything that you have said , especially about taking out the POWER VALVE, etc , and still not working points to one thing...and that may be plugged power valve circuit. DIRT, crud below power valve will create same result you express, no matter how good the kit parts are.

    I've taken apart strombergs where below the power valve is clogged solid with whatever.. Remove power valves and make sure that that circuit is CLEAN..

    I like your thinking, in that you get satisifaction in doing the job yourself. I'm same same. I've had Max do some strombergs, and he is a 'perfectionist', which is important. These poreis antique potmetal bodies are shit to work with to get to not leak, and to look like Max makes them purdy. But, besides purdy, I'm with you...not rocket science..
     
  18. JT1930
    Joined: Jul 1, 2018
    Posts: 119

    JT1930
    Member

    227537F0-12A8-417D-BB84-8A80D519A50B.jpeg

    Railcar. Here’s a pic. Best I could get.
     
  19. 28dreyer
    Joined: Jan 23, 2008
    Posts: 1,085

    28dreyer
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Regarding Stromberg 81 accelerator pumps...

    There was a period in time when rebuild kits and suppliers were substituting an accelerator pump that was a close substitute from a Japanese carb.

    Then fortunately, Stromberg In England made the originals available sometime around 1998 or later if I recall correctly. Hopefully still available.
     
  20. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 108

    railcarmover

    [​IMG]
    On the left is a 1928 5 bearing A cam.measured at .280..on the right is a B cam,.319 measured.Only a guess,but Id say by the nose you have an A cam..Ford increased the valve lash on B exhaust to .022 to give the valve more time on the seat and aide cooling but folks set them at the A lash of .13 to .15 to get maximum benefit. Actual design lift of the B is .032 in and .039 ex greater than the A.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
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  21. JT1930
    Joined: Jul 1, 2018
    Posts: 119

    JT1930
    Member

    Thanks railcar
     
  22. dmdeaton
    Joined: Nov 25, 2017
    Posts: 341

    dmdeaton
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Mine just left on the trailer to the upholstery shop. Getting the seat frames and the door panels done. Hope I see it back soon. :(
     
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  23. junk yard kid
    Joined: Nov 11, 2007
    Posts: 2,713

    junk yard kid
    Member

    With the old and/or the sanded down pumps it works good, nice stream out the discharge nozzles.

    These also came with stromberg brand rebuild kits.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  24. railcarmover
    Joined: Apr 30, 2017
    Posts: 108

    railcarmover

    You're welcome. How much are you going to do?
     
  25. Check'n in with something outta the photo file (as usual)! We couldn't get enough participants for the races at AAA Speedway in January; so we're gonna try to get something going there in April with the SportsCar Vintage Racing Association (SVRA). Absent that we WILL start our season at Buttonwillow Raceway the first weekend in May! Santa Margarita Time Trials organizing committee met yesterday. The only thing new to the event is a Ford "Banger"/V8 Swap Meet! Yesterday afternoon three of us went to the Ranch's track: #1 to test the timing system and #2 one guy brought his car in prep for TROG this weekend. we couldn't get the timing to work; and it took several tries but the guy with the car finally got what I was telling him. He used all three gears, "Short Shifting" to keep the engine in best torque and power R.P.M.
    32-John-Kerr-1932-Miller-Schofield-Ford.jpg
     
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  26. I am using one of Yapp's three inch crank pulleys and would like to make a timing indicator that fits closer to the pulley. Any ideas or photos on where to mount? The nurex one seems too far away to be accurate. I thought about drilling the front cover and tapping for small machine screws but would like other options.
     
  27. Ron Brown
    Joined: Jul 6, 2015
    Posts: 1,165

    Ron Brown
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    29370E97-D070-428D-B557-19419555FDCB.jpeg
    I just made a pointer and bolted it to one of the cover bolts...been there about 3 years no problems.
     
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  28. nutrocker
    Joined: Jan 12, 2007
    Posts: 306

    nutrocker
    Member

    New to bangers, but jumped in at the deep end by trading my old flatty powered modified for a ‘25 T on A rails with a ‘28 banger motor.
    When I said the deep end, I meant it. The motor has Scat crank and rods, full pressure mains, F head with overhead inlet, a supercharger and twin 97’s. Trans is V8 3 speed via a Clings adapter, torque tube and quick change. KH 16”s all round.
    I bought it as a runner that had been rebuilt professionally, but it had given the previous owner lots of grief and never really ran properly. So a project, albeit a running one.
    I’ve built a few flattys, currently running a 304 ci one in my sport coupe, so kinda know my way around and engine. I’d fiddled around with the banger a bit last summer but soon realised it was going to need more work, and I wanted to rip it down and build it up myself, wanting to know it was built properly.
    Sadly, it hadn’t been built at all well. I won’t go into all the details just say that it’s bad and needs total rebuild.
    One of the things that was wrong was the main bearings that were used when the oil pressure was done were bigend bearings. No grove for the oil to go around the crank and the oil hole in the cap was between two bearings, meaning they would only get oil by default and not by design.
    I bought bearings from AER and have modified the front and rear caps to suit. The middle cap was to be remade. I wanted to girdle the centre main and attach it to the sides of the block. So I’ve machined a 2” square steel block so it’ll span the width of the block, and will be tied to two 5/8 x 2” steel bars that will bolt to the pan mounts. Like a big H section that should brace the centre main nicely.
    Another bit I wasn’t happy with was the flow of the head. It has a big 1-7/8” inlet valve that was opening 0.540” but didn’t flow at all well due to the flat design of the intake port. The head is a two piece aluminium design, so I’ve welded up the lower section of the port and in the process of welding up the top section so I can move the intake port up and have a more down draft port. This should increase the flow and allow the gases to get past the valve much better.
    A friend and myself cc'd the head along with the block to work out the correct compression ratio, which was 6.9:1, a bit down on the 8.5:1 the makers of the head had claimed, but with 10 lbs of boost from the blower makes for 11.59:1 at full boost. Hence the centre main girdle.
    When the block is align bored for the new centre main I’m also having the cam bearings bored out so I can fit insert bearings on the cam. These will be pressure fed from the outside of the block. The oil pump will be external and a dry sump system will be used.
    Still lots to do, but with a deadline of middle of June for Pendine Sands it won’t be long before I start running out of time.
    I’ll leave with some photos of what I have and where it’s going.

    0FCB5050-BEF5-4CB4-8944-94F1DBE4AC08.jpeg DA4E4112-F156-45AE-864E-154EBFC630D0.jpeg 89CBB981-2BA6-459F-BB38-6F64E12A3DA7.jpeg E2D95E7F-BEC9-4909-BDBB-4BFBEA4586DE.jpeg 0BC0D64E-AC86-4447-AA4C-A3F44A941CB5.jpeg D073B186-3414-4BE6-87A0-7E81F0CD4520.jpeg A066B7C5-B56F-4C4E-B7C7-91B444E9CECB.jpeg CF4BFD58-2EEA-49D1-850E-2B45B903BB82.jpeg 16094559-EEE7-4E9F-8EBE-B8BE27DFBB8E.jpeg F484D319-3142-4095-A46F-CB604D1F1E35.jpeg 656C710B-5383-4D41-A681-AE6538D45597.jpeg EF119352-F2C0-4C02-B68E-15BCF7D44963.jpeg 4AF3DCEE-FFAE-4D96-B081-6865943979D2.jpeg CD636937-326C-4D82-AA89-6BC82B19C2E3.jpeg 73081180-AC53-4DFC-9FC9-AEB4508EE018.jpeg 151A1A15-E816-4393-A055-76D27B49B669.jpeg 30130662-E9B0-492B-8120-17BF55BCF17D.jpeg 8A02487A-BBCA-4F56-8DF9-6C0E723F89ED.jpeg
     
  29. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 906

    johnneilson
    Member

    Nutrocker

    Very cool build, keep the pics coming.
    It is scary what we find in the bottoms of these motors. Not to mention the tops too!!

    John
     
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  30. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 308

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Thanks for sharing.
    No end to mans imagination/creativity ! Looks like a street licenced machine.
    What brakes do you plan for ?
    Do you happen to know maker of this two piece head ? What method do you plan to use to seal it with ?
    NICE work !!
     
    nutrocker likes this.

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