Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical ***March 2018 Banger Meet - Equinox Time***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, Feb 28, 2018.

  1. winduptoy
    Joined: Feb 19, 2013
    Posts: 2,120

    winduptoy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Truckster17
    That looks like an original Cragar head. Nice.
    When the question is ask about it being a 'Denver' head, there was a number of the 'Miller High Speed Heads'
    cast in the 1980's and into the early '90's, by Van Steenburgh Engineering Laboratories, Inc in Denver, Colorado.
    They are referred to as "Denver Heads" They are pretty faithful to the originals and are cast iron.
    I have an original that I've just gone through.
    The original (and Denver, they copied mistakes too) rocker geometry is poor. It has about a 1.26 ratio.
    The rocker collides with the spring retainer cap. This can be solved by using offset keepers....but it depends on the valve you have. The rocker shaft assembly might have to be shimmed (raised) to get the proper rocker contact with the valve. The heads I have done got new guides and Ford FE seals. The valves had problems on the last head and they got new BBC valves. The new valves can be set up to help with the rocker set up too. Also used valve springs from a Chrysler OHC that had around a 55# seat pressure and a low spring rate.
    It is going to wake up what you install it on.
    Larry
     
    Jet96 likes this.
  2. That is a big difference for sure. Sounds like you have a healthy motor.
     
  3. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,179

    Crazydaddyo
    Member


    I ran a 7.5+:1 comp. head on a stock b engine for over 10,000 miles mostly spirited street and freeway driving with many runs down 1/8th and 1/4 mile drag strips. The engine was well used when I got it. I tore it down and reset all of the bearing clearances (stock Babbit) and replaced the stock style pistons with a modern style piston. The cylinder walls were so worn that there was .010" of "belly" in them. I replaced the stock cam with a "3/4 race" cam, and the stock head with the previously mentioned high compression Weiand head. Added 2 Stromberg 81 carbs and an electronic distributor with centrifugal advance. Stock oiling system with some minor mods to the oil pump for more volume. As Bluto (Jim) has stated All of this significantly reduced the life of the engine as it pushed out the bearing material in the main and rod bearings one day at the drag strip. It cost me close to $10,000 to build a fresh replacement engine. This new engine is much better then the last, and I figure it is puts out @ 95 hp. My best 1/4 mile time was 16.32 secs. at 80.58 mph. You can spend less money and go faster with a SBC, but I don't like taking the easy way.

    FAST HC 2014 01.jpg

     
  4. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,179

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

  5. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,179

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

  6. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,179

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

  7. waxhead
    Joined: May 11, 2013
    Posts: 1,161

    waxhead
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from West Oz

    Crazydaddyo , thanks for posting, it sounds sooooooooo good.
     
    Crazydaddyo likes this.
  8. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,179

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    This is what 7.5:1 does to stock pistons.

    DSCN0403.JPG DSCN0404.JPG DSCN0405.JPG DSCN0406.JPG DSCN0403.JPG DSCN0404.JPG DSCN0405.JPG DSCN0406.JPG
     
    Jet96, 52 ford coe and ROCKER77 like this.
  9. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 376

    hardtimesainit
    Member

  10. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,179

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    My engine. This was the "used" b engine a few hundred miles after I first put it in my car. This is why I tore it apart and put new pistons in it.

    .
     
  11. I agree on the v8. Not for me in this ride. To make an "a" run like that is awesome!!! Thanks for sharing
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
  12. I wish you guys weren't all in California or out west! Not many model a hot roders around here.
     
  13. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    I THINK YOU CAN FIND GUYS ALL OVER THE WORLD WITH FORD A'S

    GIVE SOME THOUGHT TO A GOOD ELECTRONIC EQUIPPED DISTRIBUTOR ... I'VE MORE THAN A COUPLE CARS WITH WIDE RATIO GEARBOXES ... GOOD SPARK CONTROL MAKES UP FOR CRAP RATIOS SOMETIMES. THE COST WON'T BREAK YOUR WALLET OR ENGINE...

    OUR MODEL A IS PRETTY MUCH STOCK AND I CAN'T GET IT OUTTA THE SHIPPING CRATE

     

    Attached Files:

    barrnone50, winduptoy and 52 ford coe like this.
  14. Very nice car! Yeah model a guys everywhere. I mean someone close by to me that has the same "addiction". I have car friends but everyone I know isn't into the 30s era.
     
  15. 20180324_105331.jpg took it out today despite the salt on road. Took top off because thinking about painting it. Just not sure direction for color. Want to do a satin finish and run a number on the door. That I know.
     
  16. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    THIS IS IN OUR WINTER GARDEN

    PUT ONE OF THESE IN AND NO ONE WILL LOOK AT THE PAINT:rolleyes:

    ardun lhs.JPG
     
  17. That's the holy grail!!!!!! I want it! Maybe not for roadster. Decoration in house Haha I saw a set of those heads for sale a while back. Wanted a good penny. 14000.
     
  18. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    NOT A "HOLY GRAIL" NO OLD FORD PIECES IN IT ANYWHERE

    LOOK CLOSE IT'S BRAND F'N NEW.

    SOMETIMES THE CHEAPEST THING YOU CAN DO IS BUY THE MOST EXPENSIVE THING YOU CAN GET!


    HERE YOU GO......

    http://www.ardun.com

     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2018
  19. lake_harley
    Joined: Jun 4, 2017
    Posts: 1,104

    lake_harley
    Member

    Thanks some ugly stuff there. I can just imagine the "hidden" damage done as well. Considering what you put your engine through with 7.5:1 compression and all of the other mods, I'm thinking the 5.2:1 head and a few minor mods I have planned for my A will almost be a non-issue.

    Lynn
     
  20. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,128

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    yep , I'm running ross pistons

    run whatcha got then you will have a better idea of what you need or want . 3:78 is stock & 3:55 works well with out all the bells & whistles ..........
     
  21. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    ROSS ARE VERY GOOD BUT THEY DON'T HAVE FORGINGS SMALL ENOUGH FOR ME ITTY-BITTY BANGERS.

    THE ARDUN HAS ROSS PISTONS. I BROUGHT THAT MOTOR WITH THE MONEY I SAVED FROM NEVER OWNING "GOLD CHAINS" OR A LAWN MOWER!

     
  22. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 376

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    What piston make did you chose to use ?
    I just got some Ross pistons.
    Would have gotten a 5 main crank too, if the guy had answered his telephone.
    He told me that you spoke with him before he called me back ! Good luck with that. Is a good looking piece.
    FATE, plays a large part of life.
     
    Crazydaddyo likes this.
  23. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,128

    V4F
    Member
    from middle ca.

    jim , now that was funny . I'm not a gold chainer either but have no money honey ! nice garden accessory .
     
  24. Haha yup 14000.00 that's a lot of cool
     
  25. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,208

    RussTee
    Member

    Not heard many mention lighten the flywheel high compression heads and heavy flywheels dont go together specs are at the start of the banger thread in tips most put extra high tension bolts to the crank as well. Theres a lot of weight spinning on the end of your crank with a standard flywheel it could lead to a broken crank you will lose some torque but saves the crankshaft.
     
  26. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus


    I WOULDN'T OWN AN ORIGINAL ARDUN. WATH FRIENDS FIGHT TO KEEP THAT WORN OUT CRAP ALIVE FOR YEARS. I EVEN CAST NEW ARDUN HEADERS. ALL THE BILLIT IS ON THE INSIDE

    THE CRANK IS MADE WITH CHEVY NOSE AND REAR FLANGE SO I DON'T HAVE TO HUNT FOR OLD FORD CRAP IN JUNK YARDS.

    SORRY I'M JUST IN A MOOD HERE TOO MUCH WINTER.

    IT WAS TO GO IN THIS BEFORE MY EYES WENT TO SHIT....

    40 rear.jpg chop40 ncopy.JPG







     
  27. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,179

    Crazydaddyo
    Member


    The pistons I used in that engine were a set of Fedral-Mogul that Taylor engine had on the shelf. I didn't bore it, just broke the "glaze" with a hone in a hand drill.

    I have used Ross pistons in two other builds. I like them.

    We used Race Tec pistons in the engine we built for Pop's truck. I really liked the quality. I am going to have them make a set for the 1st 5 main block I build.

    I was surprised to hear that the crank and rods were available when I called him the morning after I got the newsletter.

    .
     
  28. hardtimesainit
    Joined: Jan 24, 2009
    Posts: 376

    hardtimesainit
    Member

    Thanks Dan,
    Hope that truck is still looking and running great as I remember last seeing it ! Race Tec pistons ok. There are so many to chose from. I am going to try these Ross. Besides being the size I like (4"), they are made for modern rings!
    As far as the 5 main blocks go, I'm with you all the way in getting those up / going. You have a clue as to how looong before till that happens ?
     
  29. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,179

    Crazydaddyo
    Member


    As soon as Tod gets the block to me, it will go off to the machine shop. They are waiting with baited breath. I'm told that it shouldn't take more then 3 weeks. Then I've got to fit the rest the parts. I'm hoping not more then a month after I get the short block.
     
  30. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    THE PROBLEM WITH 5-MAIN BLOCKS IS THEY JUST BASED ON THE FLAT HEAD BLOCK. TO ACCOMMODATE THE IN BLOCK CAM, TAPPETS AND THE REST THE BLOCKS ARE WIDE. THIS MAKES THE CRANKCASE A BIT WEAKER. I TRIED TO BUY A "D" BLOCK BUT THEY HAD ALL BEEN MACHINED ALREADY. HAVING A DO HAL SET-UP I DIDN'T NEED ANY OF THAT. SO I WENT OFF TO MAKE THE 5-MAIN I HAD FROM DON. I GOT THE BLOCK SCANNED. THE GUY DOING ALL THAT HAD SOME "LIFE CHANGING" PROBLEMS AND THE ENTIRE PROJECT CAME TO A HAULT. THE PROBLEMS OF A GOOD FOUNDRY ARE NOT A PROBLEM HERE. IT WASN'T A MONEY PROBLEM. I HAVE PROVEN OVER AND OVER I'M NOT SHY ABOUT SPENDING STUPID MONEY. THE PROBLEM WAS HUMAN.
    AGAIN THIS BLOCK WAS STRICTLY AN OVER HEAD CAM BLOCK. TIGHT NARROW AND VERY STRONG CRANKCASE AND MAIN SUPPORT.


    I THINK THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IN THE US IS EPA AND FOUNDRY REGULATION. THAT HAS JUST STOPPED ALL EFFORTS THAT HAVE SO FAR BEEN ATTEMPTED. BUT ALL THOSE LOOKED TO A MARKET FOR 5-MAIN "NORMAL" FORD LOOKING BLOCKS.

    I MAY TAKE THIS UP AGAIN SOMEDAY BUT FOR NOW MY EYE'S WON'T REALLY ALLOW THAT. AND AGAIN IT WOULD ONLY HELP A VERY FEW PEOPLE WITH EXISTING OVERHEAD CAM SET-UPS.
    MY GOAL WAS NEVER TO PROVIDE A NEW DO-HAL KIT. I HAVE THE HEAD FIXED PROPERLY NOW. THIS IS ALL EARLY HAL MODEL A STUFF AS OPPOSED TO LATER HAL SET-UPS THEY WERE BOTH IRON AND ALLOY BLOCKED.

    OUR RULES DON'T LET US RUN POST 1931 STUFF. SO ALL THE HAL STUFF IS TOO NEW AS ARE "B" BLOCKS AND LATER STUFF. BUT WE ARE ALLOW TO COPY OLDER STUFF. WITHOUT A PROBLEM. OTHERWISE MANY OF THE PRE-1932 CARS WOULDN'T BE RUNNING.

    SO FOR NOW THAT'S WHERE OUR PROJECT STANDS.

    AND MOST OF THE OLD FORD DESIGNED BASED OLD RACE ENGINES HAVE BEEN RUN INTO THE GROUND 60+YEARS AGO. THAT WAS THEIR JOB AFTER ALL "WIN OR BREAK"

    PLEASE EXCUSE THE TYPOS.. I AM GETTING A LOT BETTER AT WRITING POSTS BUT NOT BETTER AT SEEING.

    EVERYONE HERE THAT IS TRYING TO OVERCOME THE FORD BANGER'S DESIGN WEAKNESSES IS GOING TO TELL YOU IT ISN'T EITHER "BOLT-ON" OR "CHEAP" OR EVEN REASONABLE.
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.