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manual firewall brakes?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 50styleline, Aug 31, 2013.

  1. 50styleline
    Joined: Apr 23, 2010
    Posts: 366

    50styleline
    Member

    Putting a 250 in the 50 Styleline. Already have front discs. My question is about the firewall mounted master I wanted for ease of install and access. Just in trying to mockup the booster will be in the way. Who makes a pedal assy for this, or what is a good junk yard swap as I am on a major budget for this build.

    Edit. Guess I meant to say the master will clear the intake by itself, but not with the booster. A one inch master should be enough to stop the car without power behind it. Any thoughts or don't do's on what I am planning
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
  2. 50styleline
    Joined: Apr 23, 2010
    Posts: 366

    50styleline
    Member

  3. I used a pedal assy from a downsized 'A' body (78 Cutlass). Booster and all. Used the subframe, too.

    BRACE THE FIREWALL!!!! You WILL have a spongy pedal if you do not, and you WILL crack the firewall. I used two angle irons (thick), from top of cowl to first break in toeboard, bolted top and bottom. I did NOT try it without, I knew better.

    Also, connect the pedal to the dashboard. This is really not optional.

    Then again, it's your car, just don't drive near me.

    Sorry to be harsh, I'm old and curmudgeonly. And still alive.

    Cosmo
     
  4. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,359

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    At the shop, non-custom stuff doesn't sell, so I can't spend time adapting infrastructure parts. I use the assembly from Walton Fabrication. They are exceptionally well made, and fit perfectly, on the first try.
     

  5. 50styleline
    Joined: Apr 23, 2010
    Posts: 366

    50styleline
    Member

    Cosmo, I appreciate the harshness as much as I do safety. Gimpy, I looked at Walton's and couldn't find one without the booster. What I did find showed the power setup without the booster and an adapter for the master by itself which made it a little long for what I need.
     
  6. 325w
    Joined: Feb 18, 2008
    Posts: 5,609

    325w
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Looks like Walton's took the idea that GM used on the power brake option for the 53 54 model year.
     
  7. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,359

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'll check when I get home, as I am on the road. The pedal arm is drilled for manual and power ratios.
     
  8. Ansen and use a master from a Corvette or Mustang or Studebaker with manuel disc brakes.
     
  9. Put a power booster under the floor you will be glad you did. My cousin has one on his 50 chevy and works great. As far as access after your all setup you really won't spend much time needing access. More room under car than you think.
     
  10. duke460
    Joined: Jan 7, 2009
    Posts: 192

    duke460
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    I used the corvette master & 7" booster. Bought the universal under dash bracket pedal assembly from Speedway motors. I welded in a lot of bracing to keep the firewall from flexing. Speedway kit with booster is about $200.
     
  11. eyefivemusic
    Joined: Jun 23, 2010
    Posts: 7

    eyefivemusic
    Member

    my last truck ('53 gmc) I used a 70's dodge van assembly mounted on the inside. worked well. remote reservoir. I am using Kugel's also inside (reinforced) firewall. with the '35 truck. other vehicles I've built a frame inside 1x2 tube connected to main body frame, brackets on top
     
  12. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?
    Member

    I too have used the Walton Fab kit Gimpy is talking about. Very good stuff, but my client wanted power brakes, so that's what we went with. 'Tis a mystery to me why you would want power brakes on any thing smaller than a 3/4 ton truck, but that's me. I personally would NEVER EVER consider a below floor mount master cylinder again unless I am 100% pushed by a client to do so. The old axiom "out of sight, out of mind" is painfully true and almost cost me the Plymouth years ago before I moved the master to the firewall.

    Depending on what you run for brakes, if you are going disc/drum, grab a m/c for a '74 Ford Maverick, non power disc/drum. They work very well on 2700 - 3100 lbs cars with fairly standard G.M. type discs up front, and the typical 10" drum out back.
     
  13. C-10 CST
    Joined: Jul 4, 2011
    Posts: 267

    C-10 CST
    Member
    from Indy

  14. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,359

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  15. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy

    Gimpy can that be adapted to the 50 pontiac as well as I might have a underside clearance problem with the reclipping and headers from a v-8 and the factory one is forward of the firewall but under the steering shaft and would beading the firewall help make it stronger if I ran vertical 1/2 rounds on both side of the master from toe board to cowl lip ??
     
  16. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,359

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I am trying to find a good picture of a Pontiac firewall, where the master, or booster would be. The Chevrolet one replaces the access plate where the voltage regulator customarily is.

    It is the hole above the steering column:
    [​IMG]
    I am unsure what the Pontiac looks like there.
     
  17. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy

    well for the moment the whole thing is flat as someone ( no me ) put a peice of sheetmetal over it and treid to smooth it that way , the sheet has to come out as they covered up the data tag on the right side and left the old wall in place and I am going to have to remove all the old firewall and rehang the flat sheet . I can upload a picture of what is there on the engine side right now . give me a few minutes as I have to transfer it out of the file to make it a photobucket file
     
  18. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy

    [​IMG] this is inside see the extra that has to bee trimed and the acess hole in the floor ,

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] this is the drivers side firewall as it sits
     
  19. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy

    I am going to seal off the vent hole as its not needed anymore ,

    also by chance does anyone make the female plug for the turnsignals ??
     
  20. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,359

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It looks like your steering column attaches to the dashboard a little differently from the Chevy. The pedal brackets attach there, too. It would be simple enough to make a little adapter.

    If you could get all of the pedal bracketry set up under the dash, you could then make the marks to transfer the holes to the firewall, using the supplied plate, as a template. Or even install the whole plate as a reinforcement.

    A few pictures in this thread show the setup in the Chevy, showing where the mounting holes in the firewall would need to be: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=598172
     
  21. stimpy
    Joined: Apr 16, 2006
    Posts: 3,547

    stimpy

    thanks Gimpy , as you see I have alot of undoing by the P.O. before I can redo it right and I want to get the systems in place when I do it so it gets done once and looks good too .
     
  22. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,359

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The Walton stuff is, frankly, astonishing. For the exact applications, the parts are cut, drilled and fit so well, that they require no "adjustment" of any kind. They just fit, and work. In this day and age where "fits" means it can be made to fit with some effort, this not very common.
     
  23. 50styleline
    Joined: Apr 23, 2010
    Posts: 366

    50styleline
    Member

    Trying to get used to my new phone. Can't load pics yet, but this all some good info. C-10 that's exactly what I need now to get it put in the budget. Also if anyone has pics of how they re-enfoced it would be great. Gympy ,thanks for all the input.
     
  24. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,359

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Anytime. Anything to help out.
     
  25. Dane
    Joined: May 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,351

    Dane
    Member
    from Soquel, CA

    Maybe, but make sure you have at least 6-1 pedal ratio and even then you're going to need strong legs. I used a 7/8" on the last 4 manual disc cars I built and had good results. You'll need at least 4" travel available at the pedal with a 6-1 ratio for a 7/8". I just use an adjustable push rod to get it where I like it.
     
  26. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,359

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The pedal arm on the Walton kit is very long, it is probably well past 6:1.
     
  27. 50styleline
    Joined: Apr 23, 2010
    Posts: 366

    50styleline
    Member

    Leg strength shouldn't be an for me or the wife. Gotta brag on her cause beat kids half her age in leg press contest a couple of years ago at the local college. Also sounds like Walton figured out the physics already.

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  28. 50styleline
    Joined: Apr 23, 2010
    Posts: 366

    50styleline
    Member

    Got pics to load. Not enough room for booster when air cleaner will be installed

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     

    Attached Files:

  29. miller
    Joined: Aug 5, 2006
    Posts: 489

    miller
    Member
    from New Jersey

    In my 51 chevy... I used the booster, master cylinder, proportioning valve, all of the brake pedal and bracket parts from a 1986 Pontiac brougham....I have disc fronts and drum rear for the brakes....and as said early put rods/bars etc for bracing between the firewall and dash....I also used the same parts but from a 1977 olds Cutless and put that in a 51 chevy sedan delivery....It has been awhile since I did it but I think I had to bend the pedal to fit around the steering column.....miller
     
  30. sluggo88
    Joined: May 13, 2009
    Posts: 29

    sluggo88
    Member
    from upland ca

    Thanks Gimpy for the complement... means a lot to us here at Walton Fabrication. I only offer quality parts through out e-commerce store.
     

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