Major design snag on the 29 Sedan (need Model A Help)

Model A guys, I need some help!!!!

Quick history... It is my 1st build.... I had lots of HAMB help getting this far... My frame is 2x3 tube Z-ed 4.5" in the front and 15" in the rear. 25" wide in the front, 35" in the rear. Chopped 4", channeled 3". I am using a 4 link from Riley Auto here on the HAMB. My rear spring is from a '47 Ford... All kinds of standard HAMB-build stuff...

Any way, I had everything set to drop the body onto the frame last weekend... Or I thought so... I told my buddies that I knew I would need to cut some stuff to get it to fit, but I had planed and measured everything I could think of in advance. (last words, right)

We went to set the body on the frame for the first time. The problem is the bars from the 4 link are hitting the sub rails. The pics are the best I have... I will have to cut almost all of the sub rails out in order for them to fit. How can I do this? ? ? I did not count on this and frankly, I'm lost. I found a couple of other problems as well, but I know what to do to fix them. I need some big time help with what to do to gewt the body on over the bars in the rear...

 

Cut the subrails and build a set of "kicked up" subrails that go over the offending parts. Leave the body tin on the outside covering it all up.

 

Looks like the 4 links are just tack welded

Option 1 Move them to the inside of the frame & reposition on the axle.
Option 2 Leave them there & remove just the the bars & axle then drop the body on to determine if you have clearance for movement after the bars are reinstalled.
Option 3???? channel it less (not what you are looking for though)

Movin/on

 

They are only tacked inthat photo... like a dumby, everthing is fully welded...

TMan: I need a picture to get it in my thick head, I'm lost...

 

Does the inner wheelwell tin clear your 4 bars? If so you build new subrails that kick up and over them. The wheelwell will hide the 4 bars which will sit between the outside of the frame and the body tin. The kicked up subrails will keep the body still.

 

Yes, everything fits inside the outside tin... What do I weld the new "kicked up" sub rails too? What is stong enough? do I weld in the new befor I cut out the old?

 

Cut the 4 bars off. Mount the body, place the rearend back under the car. Measure carfully and remount the suspension inside the frame rails.

That is my suggestion, you will get pleanty I'm sure.

 

Damn shame, but it is your choice on the repair, but I say do it once and do it properly.
If you dont fix it right now it will bug you forever more.

Seems the move to the inside would work and be easy enough or otherwise pick your poison nothing is going to be fun if you want to correct it for piece of mind especially since you have fully welded it.
Just bite the bullet and do it right.
I suggest dont keep cutting the body away.
I am sure you know what is best for the project!

 

I was going for the widest mounting spot. I think I can cut them off fairly clean and move them. I thought of this, just want to give it the HAMB test... I feel so lost at this point. This deal hit me blind side! I thought I measured everything... How wrong I was.

has anyone done this? Any one with a drawing or picture of how to???

 

The new subrails get welded to the sheetmetal. The new subrails will be the strength in the rear of the car so make em strong enough. Brace the rear of the car as best you can before you cut out the old subrails. But, remember you need to be able to work around whatever bracing you put in.
Make sure your new subrails clear the suspension through it's travel so the 4 bars don't bang into the bottom of the new floor.
If I were you, I'd make the new subfloor just high enough to clear what it needs to. Then valley the floor down to the original height. You get more interior room this way which you would loose if you were to move the 4 bar inside the frame.

 

To go along with Norrie, also movin the 4 link inside it'll be where you sit. You'd have to sit closer to the front in a small area or sit on top of your 4 bar. I cut my sub rail and built new.

 

Yes, weld in the new stuff before you cut out the old.

Can you go up and over and back down to the sub rail on the outside near the quarter?

 

Just like he said. Your mistake could turn out to save you some interior room! And thanks again for selling me the cutoffs, I would buy the new subrail cutoffs if you like? Mine are cut at the doorjamb. Or you can reuse them and just add the kickedup part made of new metal.

 

Thanks guys! does any one have pics of this... or more than one? i think I'm getting the idea. I feel like a bone head!

 

And tell the guy in the back to stay out of the garage with the flip flops. Naked toes are no match for sharp rusty metal.

 

Old Professor Hindsight strikes agin. Redo,rebuild,try again,that is the HOBBY part of this game. Move the bars now!!!

 

You are!

Just cut the bare minimum to start. Set teh body back down and block it to where you like it. If you need to cut more you will know.
I would stitch-weld the subrails to the body, no need to do a continuous bead. A few inches then skip an inch or two, seam seal the thing when done.

Lots of good threads here on floors, rolling beads in them etc.........

 

Well at least I knew enough to know when I became a bone head... LOL...

 

I agree. That is the best solution without cutting off all the 4 bar stuff.

Think of the subrails as the mounting points for the original frame. Since you changed that, you need to cut them out, relocate and modify so they still land on top of the frame rails. Located the body mount holes on the frame rails and lay the rubber strips in between and you are good to go.

 

Funny, I thought the same thing.

Is that the same guy who was casting parts in the sand wearing flip flops?

 

He's a neighbor, not a car guy. I gave him crap about his choice in foot ware. I told him we would be lifting a and moving stuff. That is also why he got the easy spot.

 

My vote would be to move the 4-link to the inside of the frame rails.

I'm wondering where the body sub-rail is hitting the 4-link?

Keep in mind that if you have 4" suspension travel to bottom-out and the sub-rail is hitting at the half-way mark, the 4-link is only traveling 2".

As far as keeping them wide as possible, not necessary for handling.
Take note of the guys running a single torque bar.
(And a panhard bar.)

The width of the spring will help the handling, but what really helps is a rear sway bar.
Deuce Factory makes a very nice small one.

Fwiw, here's a pic of my 31 on 32 rails roadster showing the Chris Alston Chassworks (1 1/4" OD bars) 4-link and the sway bar mounts.


I thought the upper bar would hit the sub-rail, but it just clears.
More room now that I've raised the car 1" in the rear and I have yet to install the bump stop.

You don't need 1 1/4" OD bars on the rear, but the 31 started out to be a competition car.
1" OD bars work fine on the street.

One thing you could do is to lower the front of the 4-links upper bar.
That could get you to where you want to go.

Don't sweat the small bit of arc difference that will be swung by slightly non-parallel 4-links.
It's such a small figure in a setup like yours that the difference is negligible.

Here's the other side of the sway bar on my 32 roadster.
It's mounted under the rear crossmember and the bolts go into threaded weld bungs.


The 31's sway bar is mounted higher and in front of the rear crossmember.

 

Move the 4 bar inside the frame rails.

 

id leave the bars on the outside, the narrower you mount them the tippier the car can get, wider is better (was that a commercial?)
and just build a kick up in the subrails to clear what you have to.

JEFF

 

Umm,, it looks to me like you have the 4 bars adjusted way out,, how many threads are still inside the tubes?? It looks to me like your are in need of some longer bars in addition to all the other issues.

 

I did the same thing! I ended up building a new subframe for mine, needed to anyway as it was rusted out from the B pillar back. But I had to go even narrower than stock for it to fit the frame but it worked out fine!

 

Tinman, In the pic where things are only tacked, the treads were in the middle. Later, I moved them to where I had about 8 threads sticking out, leaving about 2/3's in the tube. Thanks for keeping an eye on my saftey...

 

No problem Dude, glad you fixed it.

 

C9, in the second pic, the sub rail is sitting on the front bracket and the top bar. The angle that you see is how much clearence I need. It fits inside the outside sheet metal.

Chaddilac, do you have any pics on how you did it?

 

Personally I'd raise the rear of the floor (sub rails) inside the car. Those four bars look like they'd be way to close if you switched them to the inside of the frame. In hindsight, you should have made the rear of the frame the same width as the rear of the body, but live and learn... You did say this way your first build.

P.S. There's a photo of a '32 frame with the four bars on the inside, but a '32 frame is about 40 inches wide at the rear, the frame in this thread is only 35 inches wide... So with the width of the frame rails factored in, the four bars on this car are still one inch closer mounted on the outside of the rails then they'd be on the inside of a '32 frame.