Folks Of Interest Machinist's on the HAMB??

Well as many of you know back in May of 2007 I was hit head on by a drunk driver in my Daily(2005 f150 lariat) on the way to a job site. Well since then I have been unable to truly work at my job(self employed remodeling gig) So anyhow I am pretty well fixed up except for the most major of all my surgeries. I have a completely degenerated disk between lumbar 4 and 5, bulging disks between the disk above and below. So anyhow just some history as to why I am changing careers.

I enrolled in our local junior college for an associates in Industrial Machining. I talked to my instructor and WOW am I stoked. I got to check out all of the awesome equipment in the shop including the CNC equipment. I am totally new to this and am really looking foreword to it. I already have college credits and should only take me about 2 yrs or less to complete my Associates in Industrial Machining.

So what kinda pointers do the fellow HAMB machinists have for me?
Where is good place like the HAMB, but for Machinist's?
where is a good place to get some of the basic tools I will need?

Thanks in advance..

Will

 

know how to actually read a caliper and mics...dont just use digital and think your getting by. Know how to read a print and know what your tolerances are. Learn the symbols that are used on prints and get comfortable in being able to distinguish what they are being used for. Last, realize that is not always fun...its not always playtime on the mill, lathe, or cnc (if the company will let you use it ha), being a machinist is a dirty rough job a lot of the time, but the knowledge you learn from it you'll keep with you forever

 

I can read calipers and mics, I do need to learn the new symbols on drawings though. I am used to architect drawings not mechanical drawings. Nothing is always fun. only sometimes. I am however really stoked about learning, it is something I should have done long ago. I plan on picking up my own equipment to have in a shop of my own. Certainly not now, but in the next few years. I don't really care to use the companies stuff, unless they really don't mind. lol Don't get me wrong I'll be the first to ask, but won't abuse it. i don't mind gettin dirty thats part of the fun to me. Thanks for the tips fore sure..

will

 

Where is good place like the HAMB, but for Machinist's?

www.practicalmachinist.com

where is a good place to get some of the basic tools I will need?

Auctions, local, ebay.... Garage sales, pawn shops??...

Get some free catalogs from or look online at: Travers, MSC, Enco, McMaster Carr, .... To check what is out there, get a feel for prices.

Be careful about buying used measurement tools though, as there may be a reason it is for sale (dropped one too many times or ??)

 

Learn to weld if you don't know how already. And a course or two in sheet metal fabrication will be helpful as well.

 

Yeah, the practical machinst message board.... I've learned so so much of of there. I actually bought my milling machine from someone off of there.

TONS of talent. Their projects make traditional hot rodding seem SO archaic... but they're very smart and helpful.

 

Great site there V4. and I am already ordering catalogs, been checkin egay and craigslist as well. I already have the basic mics and calipers.

Bib, Do know how to weld, but just started to learn tig I SUCK AT IT so far hahaha. I still need to learn sheet metal fab too, but am workin on it.
thanks for all the help guys.

LoL JonnyCola I'm sure there are some super anal guys there as is there are here on the HAMB. lol Yeah some of the machinist projects I see are super detailed and I often wonder HTF they did it, so now I get to find out

Thanks guys

Will

 

You may want to re-think your new career choice. Most of the machinists I know who are over 40 have bad backs and bad knees from being on their feet in one position all day. You also are generally expected to be able to lift and such. Might not be very compatible with your injury. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
MSC and Enco are the biggest suppliers of tooling. www.mscdirect.com
From what I understand, the least physically demanding (and best paying) jobs are the guys who turn drawings into programs for the CNC machine. Yes, there are programs to do it for you, but you have to have someone who can actually write the code check and edit it for efficiency and accuracy. I recommend a course or 2 in CAD (in the engineering department). It will better prepare you for reading the drawing than the 'how to read a drawing' classes in the trades department.

 

I consider myself more of a chip maker, than a machinist. Check out cnczone.com, it is a monster of a board and it moves fast.

I have been trying to learn Fanuc for several months and ran my first program about a month ago.

I found the mastertask online class to be helpful, check it out.

I bought this Kitamura in January. 7.5 hp and 13,000 rpm

 

as stated above, try to learn and develop on manual machines as much as you can. Sometimes company's will take guy's that are quick learners and put you in a specialty department which is good, but the more you know on basic machines, the better you will be in that department(CNC, EDM, GRINDING).

for tooling, only buy basic stuff now...0-1/1-2/2-3 mics... starrett stuff is really good, 0-6 verner.. .001 dial indicator w/ transfer gage.. those are tools you will always use... depending on what field you end up in, you won't need alot of other tools.. plus there will always be a tool crib which carries various tools for the shop. a general rule of thumb, once you are in a job shop, if you borrow a tool more than twice...you should buy one.

good luck in your new career. it's a great trade.

 

Measure twice!! Cut once!!!! Really good luck on you new gig>>>>.

 

You took the words right out of my mouth. I needed to get an order out one time, It was large and to a customer here on the HAMB, I busted a nut out in the shop just working on that order, stayed up 27hrs straight!
MAn when I was done, I was out! hit the sack, got up early the next morning and made the delivery on time.

Barney Navarro once told me that this is a young healthy mans game, he himself looked beat, I did his run that day, very hard even with a cnc which I manually had to program. You are on your feet constantly and are lifting very heavy objects in my case.

I suggest engineering or teaching a voc class. Much easier on the body.

 

yea if you have a bad back,not a good idea, I've been working on old ass antique manual machines for eight years,and even though i don't have a bad back,it still kills me. We have a guy who works here who has bad discs, and i don't know how he does it. if you do decide to try it, get some quality steel toes,they will save you from many broken toes, and the best insoles you can get your hands on. even with them, it still seems you can feel the concrete right though them. look for the oregon aero insoles if you can find them, def be able to read manual calipers and mikes, i have a set of first generation mitutoyo digimatics,but i like to use the manual ones mostly. If you really want to impress and confuse people, learn to read old vernier calipers. I don't know anyone else who can. I still have a set of polish made VIS. if you are in the market for mikes, if you search,you might get lucky and find a used older set, for some reason the quality seems to be going downhill on everything new. plus they will have some history. nothing wrong with used measuring tools if they have been well loved. also the japanese made some fine older manual mikes,if you can find em. i have a one inch Uchida, I would love to find the 2 and 3 inch, but i've never seen another one. I like this better then my browne and sharpes and my Starrets. very sturdy and well made, put many years of use on them,and they still work fine.

 

Well said. I know more machinists with work related health problems than without. Its a mentally demanding job too - don't underestimate it. Accurate work ( like I do as a moldmaker ) is a constant head fuck - you have to be "on" all day. And production work is more boring than anyone could imagine unless they have done it. I'm 26 and looking to get out already.

 

I quit my job as a machinist because it was so hard on my back and knees. You might want to re-think things before you get too involved.

I worked 4 12 hour shifts a week standing on a concrete floor. It tore me up pretty bad after a few years.

 

yep,first priority is a really well made pair of steel toes, a good supportive boot will really help you on the concrete. I'm only 36 and my knees are already torn up all to hell. I still can't believe it when i see people wearing tennis shoes on concrete. I saw somewhere where someone had invented some kind of air bladder insole, is supposed to be a barrier between the floor and your feet on concrete.

 

if you want to really see some old ass machinery, take a look at this video, I had made it before layoffs because no one was sure if the plant would reopen.
only time i'm in it is when i'm at the drill press,I was wearing the boggin. that bridgeport is so old, I think it's serial number around 133. if you really want to talk about being worn out, I sometimes use a huge colburn vertical boring machine circa. 1916. It was originally steam powered off of a factory ceiling. huge old bastard. leather belt driven,and so loud it's deafining with earmuffs on. just hope you don't end up in a shop like this. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5713911226977503268

 

holy shit, I just went to that machinists forum and that bridgeport is a '39 model.

 

We live in 2008, and manual machining has been on it's way out for a while. While there will always be a niche market for manual machining for repair work, that market is overcrowded now and will be for the foreseeable future. I know its a bold statement on my part, but from what I've seen 99% of industry is capable of going completely automated in production and industries that haven't already gone to fully automated production have been held back by poor management that refuses make infrastructure upgrades.

True marketable skills in the industry are in the CAD CAM processing in CNC machining. There was a time when cutter paths were created by hand based on tool offsets. Today we can model an entire part and calculate cutter loading and residual stresses left on critical areas after machining, the analysis and programming go so far beyond basic cutter paths its amazing.

The manual machining market shrinks every day while CNC machining grows, so my recommendation would be to learn machining techniques and focus on the growing market and not the shrinking one.

 

manual machining will kill you if you already have a bad back!

is someone else paying for this education, or is it coming out of your pocket? cause i would not advise spending your money on the education unless you are sure this is something you really want to do. you must learn programming to be proficient at CNC machining, but i would advise against being a programmer or engineer until you have several years experience as a machinist. shoot for a toolroom or setup job if you want to make any money, but don't be fooled, the good days seem to be gone, the wages are insulting for new hires recently. every day i see old guys with a lifetime of experience who know what they are doing working for $14.00 an hour(or less) doing production work. you need to be either very good, very motivated, or very lucky to "do good" in this field.

attention to detail is a must, and most importantly, ALWAYS strive to make a PERFECT part. that is what will get you the furthest in this field. no matter how much the foreman or plant manager is hollering for quicker, make sure what you are making is RIGHT first. always shoot for the exact dimension, rather than "in tolerance". yes this may get you booted from a high pressure production job or two, but believe me, there is always work for machinists who can promise a perfect part "when it's done".

you can do alright though, i am very lucky to be in the position i am in. i work second shift in the tool room of a production machine shop. i work alone with zero supervision, taking care of whatever needs to be done, making dies, prototyping, fixturing, etc. whatever it takes to make things go smoothly when dayshift shows up in the morning. in exchange for making todays problem disappear before tomorrow, i get free reign over all the shops equipment for my own projects. i feel like joe walsh, i can't complain but sometimes i still do.

 

I have thought a lot about this. I still want to do it. Many reasons. I'll answer as many questions as I can, and be as short as I can.lol Like that is gonna happen. First off, yes my back is screwed, I should behaving complete disk replacement in the future, for now going to school is more of the path I feel need to take. It may sound nuts, but I have been asking God to open doors for me and this is one I feel he has opened. I love to build things with my hands. I love fab work, I love Hot Rods etc etc. I applied for financial aid because Mentally I feel like I am wasting away, not bettering myself. If I am gonna be out of work, i might as well be going to school. I have held many jobs in my life sometimes 2 or 3 at a time. I started working for my dad at age 8 at his service station, pumping gas and giving change, doing windows checking oil, a real service station. At the age of 12 I started working for a family friend afternoons and some weekends in his upholstery shop until I was 16. At the same time I was turning wrenches with my dad at his shop, when it was slow at the upholstery shop. I wont get into all the different jobs I have had at this point, because I would write a whole freaking book.

So I was accepted for financial aid, I wanted to change majors, I don't want to be doing construction anymore, I'm tired of fixing peoples screw ups, and at this point I physically can not lift the full sheets of plywood and sheet rock etc without hurting for periods of time afterwards. Many of us know how physically demanding construction work is. My plans are not become a full time machinist doing this day in and day out the rest of my life. For many reasons, My wife makes fair money, is opening a new business, and should be making killer money within a yr GOD WILLING. I wont get into details on that, 2nd) I will be settling my lawsuit(from the drunk tard who hit me head on) before long and will be able to make sure my bills etc are taken care of. 3rd) and one of the main reasons. I think I will really enjoy doing it, fab work to me is yes demanding, even though sometimes I hurt like hell, I am relieved from a shit load of day to day stress by building things, its a FLOW for me. We all get in our zones. In the end of my schooling I will have the little paper that says am TRAINABLE. It will be from a well credited school and will be an associates degree. Many jobs don't give a rats ass what you majored in as long as you have the piece of paper that says you graduated from college.

That being said, It will be something I might really enjoy, but most of all have the papers to prove I can do it. My real goal is to be able to learn something I have dreamed of learning for a long time. I can not stand to be in an office all day, and would rather die in the shop than in the office. WE have plans on building a really good sized shop within the next 5 yrs when we build our new house, and This is some of the equipment I would like to have in it. BUt I want to learn how to use it the right way. And I get a degree out of it too. I Do want to learn the new CNC and computer programmed equipment really bad, it is the way of the future. Manual machining is slowly becoming a lost art. However it still needs to be learned before you can successfully learn to program a cnc machine. It is kinda like the super book smart engineer who knows everything a book can teach you, but you put his ass in the field and he is like a lost puppy. Doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. You have to learn the manual basics before you just start writing a cnc program. At least that is how I see it. So my novel has grown huge. I hope my thread doesn't get shut down. I have a couple of really comfy Justin Steel Toed work boots, and Will be looking for those inserts mentioned earlier. They are pretty darn comfortable, but I could use some more. I am only 34 to add insult to injury here.lol

I really appreciate everyones comments and outlooks on things, I do take all them very seriously and to heart, but this is something I have always wanted to learn to help me in my fabricating abilities. I'm sure my schooling wont stop here either, but for now this is the path I think I would like to follow. Please keep the suggestions and comments coming, positive or negative ones. Any more machinist sites?? Any pics of things you guys build or have built? maybe something on your rod or custom? I love to see Ideas that have popped into your mind and then been put together.

Will

 

Hey Will, my 2 cents would be to learn the basics and become proficient in manual hands on machining. Sounds to me you have found something that you enjoy doing and something to keep you occupied at the same time. Honestly to go through all that training and then work for some shmuck for peanuts don't make much sense to me. Try and carve out your own niche and work from your own shop. Once your up and running with your own products or some good customers you'll know when it's time to go CNC.

I've been programming, setting and running CNC's for 15 years now and there is still hardly a day goes by where I don't learn something new or figure out a better way of doing things. There is no doubt CNC's have made life easier for machinists and the productivity goes without saying, but at the same time stress levels can go through the roof when your working on a complex job or your machines break down. When you get that far, if you can afford it, buy new or at the very least make sure you know the full history of any second hand machine you look at. I'm in Australia and I've run machines from Jap (Hitachi) to crap (Goodway-Taiwan) and by far the most user friendly machine anyone can own is a HAAS. Great value, sturdy machines, off the shelf parts and customer service 2nd to none.

You need to enjoy what you're doing in life so if your hearts in it go for it.

Best of luck.

 

Actual "Manufacturing" in North America is becoming a thing of the past.
CNC or otherwise.

Skills are good,if you can apply them constructively.


I wish I had some good news for you.

 

There is always room for this type of stuff. As far as alot of stuff moving to China, that will shift back here. A million articles have been written lately about the rising costs of doing business in China.

I agree learn CNC. If you can build a good reputation and a few good clients, that is a start.

 

After you finish school, what are the chances of having to re-locate? My nephew is a shop forman in Midland, they have mostly cnc lathes because of the oilfield work, and his shops are working 24-7 right now. Most of his people are earning over $18.00 an hour straight time and paid 1 1/2 for overtime over 40 hours. If you can stand all day, there is very good money to be made. Like said, it is very hard, dirty work and not really for older folks.

 

I'm Richard Daugird on Practical Machinist. I resrored this old 9" Southbend, with help from guys on the board there.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=129343

 

5WindowCoupe,
Lot's of good advice on this thread, sound's like you pretty excited about getting in the machinist trade. I started my apprenticeship in 72, and would do I all over in a heartbeat.

 

Lot of people on here have many opinions on becoming a machinist. If your heart is set on it, listen to the instructors that you will be in contact with. They are the ones that will lead you in a direction that will be the best choice for you. (Your making the decisions) We have a very good program in Lansing at our Community College and still have trouble filling classes.
This place has HAAS equipment that is kept up to date. Even the manual machines require a good working knowledge of geometry and a little programming. IE they can be programmed to, as you turn the saddle on a lathe it will automatically turn the cross feed to create chamfer, radius and spheres on the ends of shafts.
Good working knowledge of mathematics.
A good listener.
Knowing a graphic program like MasterCam, Surf Cam or what ever your school will be teaching for your area is a major major plus.
Being able to both program and run equipment also a major plus.
I've been a toolmaker / machinist for General Motors for nearly 28 years. Worked in the powertrain side most of it. Been running CNC machines for 22 of them. Love it. Can't imagine what I would have done had I not found this.
Go for your dreams. Don't let anyone rain on your parade. Hell, if it doesn't work out, you can take that knowledge and do something else.
Best of luck to ya.
Brian

 

Wanted: CNC machine operator in the Kansas City area, our last machinist cut his finger off on Monday...Really...! PM me if anyone has any intrest for this job! Sorry bout the hijack 5 Window, but as the ad says MACHINIST WANTED, does that give you a clue...always in demand!

 

Consider going into moldmaking.We use a lot of high tech equipment wich makes the job very interesting.We have lots of trouble finding people to fill postions.We are always looking for peeple with drive and focus more than training.We do things so differant thet what is taught in the schools that most of the time we need to retrain.
I have been at if for over 30 years in differant positions and never had any health issues.We see alot of offshore competion but are still in the game by doing quick delivery and complicated type work.Burl