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Hot Rods M/T Pontiac Tempest 4cyl with chain driven 471 blower

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by drumyn29, May 11, 2021.

  1. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 4,527

    Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Member

    Yeah, no doubt! My first thought would be to drop it in a hoodless Track T.
     
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  2. ottoman
    Joined: May 4, 2008
    Posts: 338

    ottoman
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    I have a race one in my shop also... no blower but big domed cast pistons... crank also says "arma steel" on it and its a cast crank.. not sure but I think all the 4 cyl cranks were cast and said "arma steel" on them
     
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  3. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 22,426

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    Could have been cast steel... Or maybe even nodular iron....
     
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  4. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,462

    carbking
    Member

    The Tempest 4-cylinder M/T valve cover is listed in the 1962 M/T catalog. This was the second edition of the catalog. I do not have a first edition, nor do I know when it was printed.

    Jon.
     
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  5. Pretty sure cast steel for Pontiac cranks. With the more rare forgings in a few examples on the V8s. Same story on rods, Pontiacs have cast steel rods, with the more rare forged rods.
     
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  6. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 5,971

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Many years ago, the General Motors (GM) metalcasting division developed an alloy known as Armasteel for use in differential parts, engine crankshafts, automatic transmission stator shafts, connecting rods and other components.

    Armasteel served the automaker well in many critical areas. In the GM Corvair, for example, it was used for differential ring gear carrier/cover assemblies. The material also was used for the crankshaft in the high performance 421-cu.-in. Pontiac engine and the connecting rods in the lightweight Buick/ Oldsmobile V-8 engines of the 60s.

    However, confusion about the nature of this material has recently emerged in the casting community. Much of this results from GM's marketing efforts to apply a certain mystique to standard engineering materials. First, Armasteel is not steel but a GM trade name for a grade of pearlitic malleable cast iron. As a 1982 GM brochure explains, it is a ferrous alloy with temper carbon in a matrix of tempered pearlite or tempered martensite. It was produced at the GM Central Foundry Saginaw Malleable Iron plant (SMI), which was closed in mid-2007.

    A brief history of the plant was given in the article "A History of Innovation" in the Jan. 2001 issue of MODERN CASTING. According to the article, "SMI was one of the first to develop a melting technique in which cupola iron was transported to electric arc furnaces and 'duplexed,' or treated for metallurgical control and held until it was needed at the molding lines. SMI also developed and introduced pearlitic malleable iron (known as Armasteel) in 1936, which was used extensively for military applications during WWII and the Korean War and also for the conversion of crankshafts and connecting rods from steel forgings to cast components in the 1950s."

    As heat treatment technology was refined and moved from coal fired batch ovens to continuous gas or electric atmosphere controlled ovens, so did the manufacturing approach and available grades of Armasteel. The resulting four Armasteel grades listed in the GM brochure were referenced by hardness and strength ranges (Table 1).

    Beyond the heat treatment to convert the white iron cementite to a temper carbon form, these specific grades were made by either a controlled air quench and temper from the malleablizing temperature (resulting in a tempered pearlite) or a second heat treat operation consisting of reheating followed by an oil quench and temper (tempered martensite).

    The confusion over Armasteel also arises from malleable iron becoming less popular over the years. As ductile (nodular or spheroidal graphite) cast iron started to gain acceptance as an engineering material, much of the former malleable iron work (malleable dates back to about 1900, while ductile was invented in 1948) was converted to ductile cast iron. Malleable iron is more difficult to cast and requires the lengthy heat treatment operation to create the temper carbon. Ductile iron can be made directly from magnesium as an alloy treatment addition to the base iron. In addition, most of these Armasteel grades now can be made as-cast with alloying additions of copper or manganese to the base metal.

    If you are looking for a replacement alloy for Armasteel, look no further than standard ferrous materials. Any malleable cast iron produced with proper controls will be similar, if not identical, to Armasteel. Ductile iron equivalents also are available for all four grades of the alloy.
     
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  7. lumpy 63
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Posts: 1,633

    lumpy 63
    Member

    Diggin the 4 bolt main Tempest block:cool:
     
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  8. pontman
    Joined: Mar 18, 2011
    Posts: 412

    pontman
    Member

    I talked with the seller Norm and had many questions about this engine. He had sold it and didn't want to talk, he did say it sold for $1000. Is this true? Had planned to make a offer but being 1000 plus miles away doesn't help.
     
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  9. drumyn29
    Joined: Feb 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,021

    drumyn29
    Member

    yes, it sold for $1000 but I bought it for more.
     
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  10. 296ardun
    Joined: Feb 11, 2009
    Posts: 4,608

    296ardun
    Member

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  11. 296ardun
    Joined: Feb 11, 2009
    Posts: 4,608

    296ardun
    Member

    Love this! Ron Benham was a friend and mentor when I worked at Blair's in the early '60s. He built cars for many decades. Here is the Willys coupe he build with Earl Wooden, photo from the Don Tuttle collection...they ran it at both the drags and the lakes.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. drumyn29
    Joined: Feb 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,021

    drumyn29
    Member

    I'm building this heap now, I wonder if it would be ridiculous if I built it similar to Wooden/Benham's but with the 4cyl Pontiac. I have a magnesium Halibrand quick change for it. IMG_5072.jpeg IMG_0237.jpeg
     
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  13. King ford
    Joined: Mar 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,476

    King ford
    Member
    from 08302

    Bingo Flyer!! ...when I read " steel crank" I too looked.....needs a little Bessemer process to be steel!!.... still COOL STUFF AND STORY though!!
     
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  14. Very cool find!
     
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  15. 296ardun
    Joined: Feb 11, 2009
    Posts: 4,608

    296ardun
    Member

    Why not? It was a classic.
     
  16. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 12,471

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Burke introduced himself as the “ Worlds tallest Midget”. He was quite a guy.
     
  17. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 12,471

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You must have bought it from Norm. I knew Ron very well. Marched to a different drum beat. Built a lot of race cars...
     
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  18. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 12,471

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Moved to aFED later but never ran as the guys got married and the car sold..as told to me by Jack Underwood.. one of the players in its conception and running in the Willys at Lions
     
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  19. I know of Burke from my friendship with Glen B RIP
     
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  20. Those Pontiac armasteel cranks seem to be pretty tough. I've never hurt one. The engine in my 34 is an early [1957] Pontiac and they came with forged steel rods and crank. Some guys attached the name "rubber rods" to the forged rods....said they would stretch at high RPMs because of incomplete heat treating. I dunno...my rubber rods haven't stretched ....yet. I keep it below 5500 RPM tho.
    Cool 4 banger motor! I'd put it in something really light like a HAMB drags dragster with all early parts.
     
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  21. It would be in a T modified for me!
     
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  22. drumyn29
    Joined: Feb 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,021

    drumyn29
    Member

    Jnaki, you always have the best pictures and information. Thank you
     
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  23. drumyn29
    Joined: Feb 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,021

    drumyn29
    Member

    Question for ya! What front brakes did these guys use on early willys race cars, was there a disc brake set up other than the Volvo brakes? Or even on 39-48 ford axles, what was available.
     
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  24. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,616

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Don't know how they did the Fords but Dodge Clutch Flites used a power steering pump plumbed into the transmission.
     
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  25. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 2,310

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    Pretty close, but C4s could indeed exist in '63- the casting numbers actually represent the year model the casting was designed for, in this case '64, and the vehicle line that paid for the engineering, in this case A or full-size Ford. It could be used by any of the vehicle lines, but that line paid for the engineering. To be used in early '64 vehicles, the castings would start production in early/mid 63 to allow for machining, building and installation in time for new-car introduction, which is well before the first of the year- so C4 transmissions did exist in '63. Never seen a clutch-C4, mine is a C6 which was a Ford/B&M collaboration, but MT was never afraid to conjure up some pretty innovative (bizarre?) stuff on his own. As was mentioned, that one doesn't have the fingered cage to drive the pump as the C6's used, so ? This is the clutch-C6 drive
    351692742.jpg 351692743.jpg
     
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