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Technical Lucas Oil Additives

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by blowby, Sep 8, 2021.

  1. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 8,384

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Thinking about adding some oil additive to my (as far as I know) bone stock, untouched, non-hardened valve seat 1956 Chevy 265. Lucas makes an oil makes 'oil stabilizer' and 'break in oil', only one with ZDDP as far as I can tell, the other seems more like a thickener. If you add this to your motor oil, which do you use? I'm more concerned about engine protection that stopping oil burning, etc..

    I know it's a some swear by it, some swear at it topic, and that there are motor oils with protection for older engines, just curious about these products.

    l.JPG ll.JPG
     
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  2. Joe Travers
    Joined: Mar 21, 2021
    Posts: 695

    Joe Travers
    Member
    from Louisiana

    Just run the Classic Car and Hot Rod oil and be done with it. 2000 ppm zinc.

    Joe
     
  3. I have used the one on the left for years, especially in high mileage engines. You can tell the difference. Currently using it in my wifes German OT daily. I suspect it needs valve seals. The stabilizer keeps it from burning through the expensive synthetic she puts in it.
     
  4. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,937

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Oh CRAP! My dyslexia kicked in once again. The Left one, sorry.
     
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  5. MoePower
    Joined: Jul 12, 2004
    Posts: 226

    MoePower
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Omro, WI

    I've used the heavy duty stabilizer on daily driver high mileage stuff, maybe a couple ounces per oil change. Not sure it helps but it doesn't seem to hurt. 175k on one and 203k on another, both run like a clock. Changing oil every 3k probably helps too.
     
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  6. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 6,579

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Why do you want to add an aftermarket additive? You have a bone stock 265, what makes you think you need additional zddp or viscosity index improvers? The oil that was available when your engine was designed and released to the market were nowhere near as good as current oils. High zinc oil might be needed in an engine with a high lift flat tappet cam, but is probably not needed in a bone stock 265. The oil stabilizer is simply a long chain polymer that reacts with temperature to provide a loss in viscosity, and I believe it has a tackifier added to increase adhesive and cohesive properties of the oil, but why do you think that is needed? Shear stability is an important factor in an engine oil, and an oil that shears down in use due to low performance polymers could probably stand to be fortified with a little of that stabilizer, but why do you think the oil you're using needs it? All API licensed motor oils meeting current standards must pass shear stability tests and show they meet a minimum performance level in order to receive API licensing, so if you're using an API licensed product you really shouldn't need to add anything. Really, if you just want a good motor oil with robust protection against wear and against viscosity shear use a heavy duty diesel motor oil that carries the API CK-4 (or earlier) license without an SN (or earlier) license. You'll get plenty of zddp for anti-wear and the 10W-30 or 15W-40 viscosity grade will be perfect, depending on the climate/temperatures where you live. There is no reason to use those additives.
     
  7. lucas doolin
    Joined: Feb 7, 2013
    Posts: 488

    lucas doolin
    Member

    Had a beater Ford Taurus V6. All of a sudden it developed a huge oil habit. Wasn't burning it. Took a quart to go to work and a quart to get home. About 10 quarts a week. No facility to repair. Added Lucas Engine Oil Treatment and oil consumption dropped to 1 quart every 10 days or so. Finally pulled it down to find the one piece rear main oil seal had disappeared. The only thing keeping oil in the crankcase was the Lucas Additive. Replaced the seal and no further oil issues. Not a recommended approach but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Definitely the right product for certain situations.
     
  8. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 6,579

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Let me add, that oil stabilizer can cause problems in the engine. Those polymers can offer good performance for maintaining a consistent viscosity over a wide temperature range, but there can be a downside to them. If the engine has any oil consumption, and many older engines do, than those polymers can end up in the combustion chamber and down around the rings, ring grooves and ring lands where they are converted into deposits by the heat of combustion, which leads to ring sticking and cylinder bore polishing. The longer you use them, the more deposits they cause, and the worse the problem will get. This cannot be reversed by discontinuing use, or by trying some other additive. The deposits can only be cleaned by tearing down the engine and physically cleaning them. So in the short term you might see some improvement in oil pressure, or maybe a reduction in some kind of noise perhaps, but long term they will lead to additional oil consumption, increased blow by, more oxidation and nitration of the oil, generally just bad things. I would avoid using it unless I had a problem I was trying to address and buy some time before doing a planned tear down. I would NOT recommend using that product as a preventative measure.
     
  9. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 51,151

    squirrel
    Member

    It lasted 65 years without it....now's the time to worry about it wearing out! :)

    Anyways, I thought we weren't allowed to discuss religion here. That's what snake oil is, you know.
     
  10. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 8,384

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Well it only lasted 18 years, parked in '74. :)

    Not hard to find topics on the reduction of zddp, wiped out cams, recommendations for oils other than standard brand name oils.. Just looking for cheap insurance, I can afford it. But if the additives can have negative effects I should just go with diesel oil as the expert recommends. :)

    Heard a bit of a lifter tick the other day, panic set in..
     
  11. Try it, you are not going to hurt anything. I put over an extra 100K on my old daily finally trading it off at close to 300K, running like a top.

    I also blended in with our race oil when my son was racing karts. I cut my oil bill in half (we changed oil after every session) without a drop in performance. Shit works.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2021
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  12. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 51,151

    squirrel
    Member

    If all you're looking for, is to feel better, then do whatever makes you feel better. Don't worry too much about facts, either way.
     
  13. BamaMav
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 5,548

    BamaMav
    Member
    from Berry, AL

    I've used Lucas for years in everything from lawnmowers to semi trucks. Never had an engine failure due to oil problems with it. Your experience may vary.
     
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  14. Doublepumper
    Joined: Jun 26, 2016
    Posts: 1,154

    Doublepumper
    Member
    from WA-OR, USA

    Lucas....after dealing with some British motorcycles, I get the heebie jeebies when I see that word:eek:
    What ever happened to the traditional favorite, STP? That stuff helped keep my heaps running when I was a kid.
     
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  15. I concur. Been mixing STP in with the real end, transmission gear oils for decades! 1 blue STP can/bottle to 4 quarts of whatever weight gear oil I happen to be using at the time.

    I 'do' use the Lucas Oil Stabilizer (somebody lost a full gallon along the road) mixed in with old chain saw bar oil and used non detergent air compressor oil to spray, pour, down into the body panels for rust prevention.
     
  16. I use the Lucas ZDDP additive to supplement the ZDDP in today's oils. There is reams of info to be found on the reduction of ZDDP in today's oil blends. Older engines requiring an EP additive to keep the camshaft alive (flat tappet engines) will die a slow death without the reqired amount of ZDDP. I'm sure some engines with lower valve spring pressure will last a long time with out, but for the cost, I put it in all my older engines with flat tappets.

    I use a half bottle with 5 quarts of oil to bring the level to approx. 1300 ppm.
     
  17. Joe Travers
    Joined: Mar 21, 2021
    Posts: 695

    Joe Travers
    Member
    from Louisiana

    Corrosion, more so than wear here. Zinc is a great corrosion inhibitor. I'm sure some engines are exempt from this problem, ones that see steady run-time in more hospitable climates. Condensation is a big problem down here near the Gulf Coast when engines aren't operated often, not to mention fuel problems. My small block build is 10 years old and has very little run-time on it. The first time I pulled the valve covers to lash the rockers, I found corrosion on them. IMO, Lucas may be overkill but they sell good products. Shell Rotella would be a cheaper and more available alternative to run in the crankcase. Also good products.

    Joe
     
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  18. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 6,579

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Urban legends die a slow death....
     
  19. captainjunk#2
    Joined: Mar 13, 2008
    Posts: 4,418

    captainjunk#2
    Member

    i put some of that lucas oil additive in my 36 year old 14 hp john deere lawn tractor and it purrs along nicely its slippery stuff , if your engine allready is worn though it is not a magic rebuild
     
  20. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 28,790

    Jalopy Joker
    Member

    - "experts" are not always experts - No to "modern" diesel oil - an inexpensive alternative found at Walmart: 20210625_144941.jpg 20210625_145003.jpg
     
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  22. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 6,579

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Re the GTX Classic posted above, I've reached out to the technical representative about that product, who I happen to know. It uses a group II base oil (that's a good thing, but most modern engine oils are Grp II), and it has a typical zinc level of ~1300 ppm. That should be a good oil. I was tempted to start a thread on it, but hesitated because we've had sooo many oil threads.

    Still, there is nothing wrong with using a heavy duty diesel motor oil, you just need to avoid those that are co-licensed as a CK-4 / SN products. Such an oil would have to meet the reduced zinc levels of the SN license requirement. If it's just CK-4 (or CJ-4) it does not have that same restriction, and typical zinc levels are the same as that GTX Classic product, around 1200 - 1400 ppm. But it would also be more robust in other additives, which IMO is a good thing.
     
  23. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 6,579

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    BTW, here's the tech data sheet on it.
     

    Attached Files:

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  24. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 7,520

    BJR
    Member

    I put on Armadillo repellant every day. It must be working as I have NEVER seen an Armadillo here in St Paul Minnesota. :D
     
  25. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 4,055

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    :D
     
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  26. Joe Travers
    Joined: Mar 21, 2021
    Posts: 695

    Joe Travers
    Member
    from Louisiana

    ......and rust never sleeps ;)

    rust.jpg
     
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  27. Isn't it interesting, after all these decades oil companies still don't know how to make oil properly!
    Thank heavens there are companies like Lucas and STP out there to save us.
     
  28. The only rust I see is on the rocker arms. Comp Cams must use metal that is rust prone.
    Perhaps add OSPHO to the oil?
     
  29. Mike VV
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 2,596

    Mike VV
    Member
    from SoCal

    Lucas makes quality products.

    Case in point - Years ago, while I was getting on the freeway at a somewhat rapid pace, I noticed that the water temp. gauge was rapidly going up over 220° and continuing.
    Crap, I got off at the nearest offramp. It was one of those...DAMNMET, I DON'T CARE, moments. Not knowing exactly what was happening, I drove what was about ten plus miles home, without stopping (except for lights and stop signs !). I figured that there's gotta be "some" water left in the block. No funny sounds, no real odd odors, but for the hot rusty water smell.
    After backing into the driveway, and opening the hood, I left it to cool, so I could look without getting burned.
    Final situation, one of the blocks side core plugs had blown out of the block..!
    That means...that I drove the ten plus miles home with NO...water whatsoever in the engine.

    I had changed the oil about two weeks prior, which included a bottle of the Lucas "Oil Stabilizer" that I used about every other oil change.

    I'm doubting that I could have driven ten plus miles with NO...water anywhere in the engine without the Lucas product in the oil pan.

    A change of oil, showed nothing ugly in the oil, not even a burned smell.
    I put about another 20,000 or so miles on the car/engine, with no problems. NO...more blowby, no oil fouled spark plugs...nuthin, than it had before the above problem. 93,000+ miles and the current owner is still driving the car with the same engine in it..!

    So...do I believe in Lucas products...yeah. Could plain ol STP done the same thing...don't know, and not gonna try that again to find out..!
    I use some of their other products also.

    Mike
     
  30. You realise you will have to duplicate this experience without Lucas in the oil for objective verification. Otherwise...Great Pumpkin.
     
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