Technical Lowering My '60 'Vert... Spindles or Springs?

I'm looking to lower my '60 Sunliner about 2-3", and am trying to decide which is best and/or cost effective.

Fatman has fabricated 2" lowering spindles, but they're not cheap and require a disc brake conversion. I'd like to use Willwood discs, but they are asking a stiff premium for that combo.

Springs are much cheaper, and available from at least two sources; Jamco and Eaton. If I go this route, the springs/Willwood brakes cost is about the same as just the spindles.

I won't mind a bit stiffer ride, but don't want to end up with a lumber truck either. And I haven't had the best luck with lowering springs in the past either; every pair I've had ended up sagging on me after a year or two. I don't want these ending up being a maintenance item. Anybody have feedback on this aspect? How about Jamco vs Eaton? Is their specs accurate as to how low the car goes?

Any alignment issues with using springs?

I'll just do blocks in the rear. Zero interest in bags....

Any advice/comments welcome. Thanks!

 

I'm tempted to do that, but I've had trouble with those sagging out on me too. I drive some pretty crappy roads (one of the joys of country living) so they do get a workout.

 

Being from a road racing background ............Springs every time.
But you need to measure the Motion Ratio [eg: 1" shorter spring lowers the car 1-1/2" etc]
It can sometimes be necessary to shorten the bump stops.

Another method if you are [or know] a competent welder is to "recess" the spring pockets on the A-Arms [again measure the Motion Ratio]

You cut and weld in a rolled strip of flat steel [similar to widening rims]



Both of these methods ^^^ lower the roll centre which improves handling

 

I have given some thought to modding the lower a-arms similar to what you say, although maybe making them 'adjustable' ala Jaguar. That does give the option of 'fine tuning' the ride height. My welding skills are up for that.

 

Just use a Stock Car "weight jacker" on the top of the spring

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Front-Weight-Jack,3386.html

 

Ive seen Aerostar springs used. Not sure about the drop.
I’m using explorer springs in my OT.
About a 2 inch drop and ride great.
Newer springs are usually a progressive rate.
My old boss removed a couple leafs and added air lift springs in the rear.
Bagged? Not necessarily. Those things have been around for ever.
Can raise up the rear slightly to clear stuff or when it’s loaded with people.

 

I'd have to relocate the shock for that....

 

Scare bird should have a disc setup

 

I've seen them made from a piece of threaded round tube [so the shock goes up the middle]
But we're over thinking it.

With careful measurements you can recess the A-Arm spring pockets and use plastic spacers if you go too low.
You should be able to find a pair of spare A-Arms cheap.

 

After doing the Cut coils most of my life I decided to go with Fat Man spindles and Disc Brakes on my 57 Ford. The spindle total height was 1.125 shorter that the stock 57 unit. This caused the Coil to be compressed tighter in it's space. This caused the lower A-Frame to raise the car above stock ride height by .825 at the center of the wheel opening. When attaching the tie rod I had to shorten it total amount in the adjuster sleeve on both sides and still didn't have both tires headed strait forwards. Ackerman was a mess. I set out and got all that corrected. Thank god I'm no stranger to this kind of work. I finally was able to mount the Calipers only to find the brake pads didn't sit properly on the rotors. I had pad material riding off the top of the rotor and had to machine the outer bearing hub a kiss to eliminate pad contact. What a F--ing mess. Once done my 2.500 spindles lowered my car 1.825. Add to that I have to run 15" wheels instead of my 14" first gen Americans. Yah, now I have Disc Brakes= Big Deal. I should have just cut the One and a Half coils and half the snubber off. Would have saved me buying a 15" pair of Americans and restoring them. Sad to say the car isn't on the road yet so I can't tell you if I'm happy or not. You can assume I'm not at all impressed with what it took to install them. After my 3rd phone call to Fat Man I was hung up on and since have never had my call answered.
P.S. I did end up cutting 3/4 of a Coil off so I like looking at it.

 

My '63 Galaxie ( very similar suspension) I cut a half coil out of brand new stock coil springs, OK, I ran them for a season first. Half a coil equates to 1 inch of free standing spring height. It dropped the front end about 1 3/4 inches. I've been happy with that as it drives good, no bump steer and no bottoming out.

 

I've seen some Fatman stuff that just isn't quite right, which is one reason I brought this up... I've been less than impressed with their M2 conversions.

All good stuff, thanks guys...

 

Fatman spindles do not meet the engineering standards to be allowed on the road in New Zealand.Following notification from the LVVTA in New Zealand that 16 out of 20 welds had failed NDT testing, Fatman just said they wouldn't bother marketing them in New Zealand.

 

I don't know a thing about 60 Fords, but if it has regular ball joints on the spindles then cut coils is the way to go. You can pull the stock coil out and cut a bit at a time with a whizz wheel, and try it out for a week. If you want more, just pull them out next weekend and give it a little more. One coil to start might get you really close to two inches.

I have a bit of experience on cutting stock coils on a balljoint 60's car, and I don't think we ever had sag after the initial settling period of 100 miles or so. Be aware the old wive's tale of one coil equals one inch isn't always true.

 

The 60 Ford has a decent suspension. I would lower it thru springs. Cut a quarter at a time and wait 30 days before making another cut. I like having the front end a little high not real high but level or slightly higher in the front.
Jacking up the rear end takes positive caster away.
Another thing is you need to find were the center of the suspension travel is..

 

I'm thinking the Aerostar springs will be worth a hard look, especially at their price point....

Fatman is off the table.... LOL.

 

With my hands on experience and hind sight I think you just made a very wise decision.

 

I’ve wondered about the fabricated spindles.
I’ve looked at FM spindles for a 50 merc. But something bothers them about them.
ive seen a lot of fabricated spindles in race cars but I don’t think I want em hitting pot holes

 

As long as you know the material your welding and use proper welding wire or rod know it's, weldable heat range and cool properly they wouldn't bother me. It's the guy not qualified to do the job that presents the problem. The fact that my my specific Fat Man pieces only required copying and transferring factory spec's onto another product and that didn't go well. The relationship between the 2 steps could make me a nervous. I had the welds on my pieces Sonic tested and mag'ed for a little peace of mind.

 

I made spindles to raise my Impala, out of two sets of stock spindles. Cut the bottom ball joint leg off, welded it back behind the spindle area, with a big gusset. Cut the top ball joint leg off the extra spindles, welded it along side. Welded the steering arms on. I was about 19, an older friend who worked at a welding shop did the welding. One day while leaving a stop light one of the steering arms broke off. Both front wheels shot outward, dead in the water, tow truck time. My friend welded the steering arms again much more robustly, I drove the car for years without further issues.

Not sure I would go for that mod again today, 45 years later.

 

Fatman 2” drop spindles with stock springs in my 55 Sunliner. Rides great with no problems.

 

Well, you can still buy Hoffman products here...

 

A simple process called "heat treating" would've prevented that.
Most welds actually anneal the parent material,and with a harden weld right next to it ,creates a stress point.
Heat treating from a competent metallurgist costs about $50

USA probably doesn't test for roadworthy on old cars. ^^^

When our original old 57 Chevy was imported, one thing we knew ahead of time was to replace brake hoses, shoes etc.
When we pulled ours down we were horrified [we wouldn't even have backed the car off the trailer if we knew]

here was a brake hose..


here was a shoe
It was totally dry, and measured up to stock specs, and still had stock part #'s on them.
[but crumbling from 62 years of seasonal heat cycles ]


In NZ these would've been replaced 40+ years ago because of our inspection process.

We've also seen Hotrods that were imported that looked nice , but underneath were total hackjob pieces of crap.
One was so bad that the cheapest way out was to kiss goodbye the shipping and send it back to the States.

 

After 60 years of driving I am gong to say that ride quality is entirely a subjective thing per individual person. Simply meaning that what one guy says rides rough will be great riding by someone else and those complaining about rough ride are usually used to something that you can't feel the road at all in. My wife gripes about the ride in my stock E39 BMW every time she rides in it. On the other hand she didn't fuss about the ride in my 48 with it's three front leaves removed and the 70 something Nova rear springs that are under it. Big difference in tire sidewall height on the two though.
Simply meaning I don't put a whole lot of credence in someone saying that a certain setup rides rough unless they are talking about Jeeps. My daughter's stock Jeep Renegade beats the crap out of me when I ride in the back seat.

 

Touché!

 

Steve, my bird is lighter than your 60, and the a arm geometry may be different. But the weight might not be that far off depending on which engine you have and how much weight has come off it. Everyone talks about them lowering a car, but they didn’t lower mine, it already had cut springs. But the progressive wind really improved the ride. It stiffens up pretty good on a big bump, so it doesn’t bottom, and is a lot better on the “slightly” rougher roads and tar strips. I know your area maybe a bit worse, but I’m fine on the back roads out by Enumclaw.
There’s a variety of rubber spacers if it’s a bit low, I think the Mustang sites show those. So it ‘s probably worth a close look, they’re sure cheap enough even new.

 

The big reason I brought up spindles is I've had terrible luck lowering cars with special or modified springs. Alignment issues on one, and sagging springs on all four of them. This was with cut stockers, replacement stockers, and lowering springs, both 'stock' and cut. Bought from supposedly reputable sellers. None of them maintained height over a year. Three of the four were intermediate-size Fords of the '60s, and those are a bitch to change because you have to compress them then guide them into place. I've got a shop cabinet faced with 1/8" steel that has a noticeable dent in it from one that got away, after bruising me on it's way by.

But the Aerostar springs have gotten almost uniformly good reviews here, and this suspension design is much easier to work with so I won't be dealing with scary sumbitches. And if it goes bad (for any reason), I'll still have the stockers for back-up...

 

As I eluded to in my previous post, I never had an aftermarket spring in my 60's car. We always just cut the original spring. First time was good, and drove it like that for quite a while. Then I wanted more, so cut a bit more off of it and drove it really low for quite a while.

Once my brother smacked a manhole lid and left a huge dent in the front crossmember. So another pair of original springs was sourced from the junkyard, and we went back to the low but not extreme cut. None of them sagged. Sure they have the initial settling period, which I seemed to remember was about a hundred miles. But no sagging after that.

I can't understand why you'd want to spend money on new parts when you have great OEM springs in there now waiting to meet your cutoff wheel.

Side note, all of the cutting I did on the springs on my car, forty years ago, was done with a torch. We didn't use a cutoff wheel then, and we still didn't get any sag.