The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Flipper, Feb 21, 2010.
Good point, age is a state of mind.
I guess what is missing from the NSRA is HUMOR...
All good points although the point of making it fun is a must although there can be limits to it like the NOPI import shows are just stupid but they have half naked woman at there shows in there bikini contest a have a big party at night, maybe a little over board for most but the point is thats what draws crowds witch we all know its not,the point of the NSRA If you want more people then work on great marketing angles, not mess up a great heritage show of pre 49's at what use to be one of the best shows in the country, by making excuses that you want younger people.
Back to the main reason money lets face it like getting 1k less cars a year at this show was a reason to panic in these times,
NSRA is lacking from one major thing "vision" plus marketing ability can be throwed in there aswell.
Lets face it there is alot of old people set in there ways and people tied to the NSRA could have done this in a better way then increasing the years theres plenty of other shows for newer cars. but you have to market around the times lets facing times are changing but this great show didnt have to.
Funny. That's my theory on most everything.
I see alot of valid points. All I am saying is that I went up in my tow slut with a 22 year old, a 41 year old, a 54 year old, and myself at 37. I grew up in a house of Top Fuel Cars and Street Rods. I work in the Aftermarket industry, and have for 15 years.
The cars were great, pre-48 or not. Let be real here, it's been pre-48 since the 70's. At some point, a 50's and 60's car is what a 40's car was in the 70's. Most of the post 48 stuff I saw there was good stuff.
Getting up on my soapbox now:
Let also be realistic here. The Non-OE auto industry in general is made up mostly of digressionary income dollars. The crowd of guys that started these shows back in the 60's and 70's are getting up there. No offense, my father is a 72 year old rodder, but they arent building too much anymore. That crowd is thinning out faster than Obama voters in Alabama. The cars they haev really (in general) haven't been built upon in years. That being said, the next logical path to keeping the train rolling would be to attract some of the younger (under 50) guys, and pass on the knowledge torch.
Now don't get me wrong on this, I am just being honest. I love Hot Rods, Street Rods, and old stuff more than most. I also have a decent income and a very patient wife. But lets be real here, a decent 30's or 40's Ford is typically in the $30K+ range. Most I-Phone carrying, cragslist surfing, DC Shoe wearing 30 year olds with any portion of that kind of expendable income have a lot more choices now for car hobbies, for the same or less money. Sure, a BMW M3 or 5 year old Porsche doesn's have the character that an old Caddy or Rat has, but for $25K, you can have a superbadass 11 second street Vette that you can drive to work, drag race, road race, and usually wont break........with money to spare. The shows are cheaper, tack days are $150, and a night of 1/4 miles passes are $30 most places. This is what the NSRA is competing against.
Registration, Spectators, and Exhibitor sales are way down for many reasons, but the largest by far is the dwindling pool of Hot Rod Godfathers, and the next generation in line following other automotive paths that are more reasonable and obtainable. It's a Sport that is out of reach for most of the younger guys now. If the NSRA doesn't make it more newb friendy, it's shows surely will not stand the test of time at the rate it's going.
That's my stinkin .02 on it, having been going to NSRA shows for 30+ years.
I'm 50 and this would suit me just fine!
Seriously though, I agree 100% that this stuff HAS TO BE FUN for the yonger crowd to be interested. The lawyers shut down a lot of the fun driving games that NSRA had in the 80s and 90s.
And how about this one...maybe a band that's not on social security! I'm sick of the Tommy Roe crap - I was maybe a year old when he was popular - think what the 20 or 30 year-olds think. A decent rock band might offend a few geriatrics, but so what?
You need to step out of the NSRA venue and try some of the traditional only events across the country. They are FULL of the younger generation...and I mean FULL. I feel old as I am the majority of their mothers age. These younger folks that are attending the Billetproofs, Hunerrt Car PileUp, Jalopy Showdown, Lonestar RoundUp, Greaserama, Hot rodarama, Hoedown, and the list goes on, these are the type of events that the younger generation of hot rodders want to attend. Not some over 60's crowd of mainly streetrods.
This has nothing to do with the cost of the cars. Lets face it lots of muscle cars are far more costly then streetrods. In fact an out of date streetrod can be bought for pennies on the dollar nowdays.
There are so many choices nowdays of different events to attend that a person doesn't have to settle for an event that doesn't completely float their boat. The KKOA Salina KS event was the weekend before the Nats in L'ville. There were 10% of the amount of cars there, 1000 compared to 10,000, it took me almost three times longer to get there, I had to use more vacation time, AND it was hotter and more humid, YET I had more fun there then I ever had at any of the Nationals in L'ville.
GOOD live music all day long at a bandshell with grass and trees, two different cars being chopped on site, pinstripers auction, drag racing at an old airstrip, hotel prices that aren't out of control, decent prices on food AND 99% of the cars there were worth looking at and admiring.
I seem to agree with just about everything that has been said. It was still a great show with 10,000 cars and lots of good folks...looking forward to next year. Someone posted a note about doing some of the more traditional shows and that they are attended by the younger crowd. I have done just that this year and it's a cool change from all the bag chair whiners. Hell, I'm old but don't want to be reminded about it. Met some young guys ( Rod Kings) and it's great to see their enthusiasum towards the hobby.
If I understand correctly they changed the year rule to increase car numbers. If a lot of guys, like your self, bring their "other" car and leave their pre-49 at home how did they gain anything?
I went to the Nats for just a day. The cars looked OK to me for the most part, I didn't really care for the row of Camaros, but whatever, I went right on by them. I think it will be fine as long as your typical cruise night stuff doesn't start coming in, but I am sure once the word is out in the Non-hot rod community that stuff will come. I don't know why they just didn't cut it off at 64 or 72.
There weren't a whole lot of bargains in the vendors area (which is why I went, to stock up on deals) but that is probably because the NSRA charges so much for a spot no one can afford to have a sale on anything. The swap meet sucked ass. What little was there was way overpriced, but I did manage to buy a couple of things there. I am looking forward to hitting the Springfield, MO swap on the way to the HAMB drags.
For those wanting to check out a pre-48 show in the midwest, come to Illinois the weekend of September 25th and check out Vintage Weekend at the old Chanute Air Force Base. It will be held in conjunction with an air show with all kinds of old military planes. It is being put on by a regular bunch of dudes, all volunteers. The air museum kicks ass. They have an underground missle silo in there!
You start adding all that shit to this laid-back show and it will turn into the mindset of a Minitruck show.....Any of you hamber converts (read ex-minitruckers) went to Showfest in Greenville MS? 10,000+ drunk 20 sumthin's "just havin' fun" is what shut that shit down....
I liked the feel of this years 'Nats. We had a customer's 65Pontiac Parisienne convertible in the Coy's wheel booth. Quality of pre 49 vehicles was down, but overall the feel of the showfield was good. Only say a cople of really stupid cars....(80 Malibu Gasser comes to mind..) I like attending a show that I can sit outside of the hotel on the sidewalk and watch the cars cruising and not gettin' stupid all night turning every hotel parkinglot into a topfuel burnout pit 'till 3am.
You forgot the extra long shackles.
"the crying and whining is just old, grow up and come to the show and have fun"
That was a little harsh, don't you think? If not, then you are as deaf as the NSRA. Haven't you read the comments here and the outrage this has caused? I'm saying it could have been done much better because they went way past what most of their members thought was reasonable and never made an effort to listen to them to blunt the bad PR. Instead they came across as its our game and what you say doesn't matter in the least. I'm not against a year change but with the NSRA I have always felt that their leadership believes they are the "elite" and the average guy is looked down upon and not treated with much respect. After reading your comments it is apparent you are one of them.
with my 37 ford still in the shop i would not have been able to drive the 53 chev to the nats and someday i may bring the 60 buick.
but you have made good piont a lot the post 49 cars were brought by regular nsra members.
i would like it to remain pre 49 or pre 64 but reality sets in the world changes and i have to make the best of it
I think you are forgetting from where the NSRA evolved from and its history. When you are a member of an organization you expect to have a voice in its direction. Maybe you aren't aware of it's history or dont care but it wouldn't be the NSRA without its members. It isn't the same as your business, wouldn't you agree? Since you are saying the NSRA is a business like you, its customer service sucks and the attendance numbers across the country are telling the story. I hope you run your business better than the NSRA does theirs.
I don't think so!! Who are YOU to tell me how to run my business or criticize me? The same applies to others telling NSRA what they should do or not do when it is unsolicited by NSRA.
NSRA is not a civic club, --nor do they need to meet everybody's approval.
BTW, it was apparent to me this year that many attendees were happy. My 16 year old son went and had a ball. His car was # 9516.[/QUOTE]
In the end it will be the consumer/members that decide the fate of the NSRA weather you belive it or not.
You can state all you want about it being the NSRA's ball and they can play the way they like to. Well without my green amercian dollars they have just that, a ball and no one else to play with or a venue to play at.
Now I am still a member and had planned on attending this year but got sidetracked. I can tell you that I myself have had issues with the lack of customer appreciation in the NSRA that has kept me away fom their events on weekends that their have been alternatives.
Now with this huge year change it just makes my decision to attend other shows easier. Not that I don't care for post '49 rides, I do, I have more of them than I have pre '49. Its just that for a weekend or two a year I like to spend looking at streetrods exclusivly.
Now for those that want to throw the NSRA a safety net and proclaim that the number count was a result of the economy, all I can say is FROG FOLLIES. I bet you my next build against a cup of coffee the number count isn't down there. Not just because it is pre '49 but because they know how to treat their customers, yes I said customers, properly. And in my opinion they do the best job of the 10-12 major events I attend per year.
Thanks for the plug...it should be fun.
New guy here, first post. Been hanging on the jockey journal for a few years and want to build four wheels on the next project. I'm local to the Louisville fairgrounds. Being new to the hot rod hobby(been building bikes for years) I can you tell I don't need to see the later models. You can find all the camaro's and 55 chevys at most of the other events. I was wondering around the swap meet for two days wanting to buy a project but didn't come home with anything. I was overwhelmed walking all over the place looking at cars that interested me. It was fairly easy to move past the newer stuff but in talking with some of the old timers they were pretty grumpy about the new stuff.
In the end it will be the consumer/members that decide the fate of the NSRA weather you belive it or not.
Oh, I agree with you 100%, ...AND as evidenced by the attendence this year, NSRA is still on target to have well-attended events. I don't have to necessarily like the newer styled cars that are now attending but I don't feel I need to be disrespectful to their owners or solicit against their attendence. As some former Nat's attendees drop out, new ones will begin to attend and gladly take their premium grassy parking spaces!!
Having been to only my 5th Nationals--this year in my 55 Chevy as streetrod sold--I had a great time. Wish the car change had been only to 72, but not my decision. wife and I go along with others to have a good time--meet new friends and see some others we have met along the way. Has only rained once or twice since we have started going(better track record than Indy). Hate to say it but cars can be secondary to people at the shows. Have met people from here and other sites and forged friendhips with them(although it is easier to recognize the car and then associate it with person). If I don't like the venue I don't go--so I will be back next year. Just my .02 as a lurker
I'm gettting a vibe here that quite a few particpants who owned pre-49 cars drove their later model cars to the nats for whatever reason (more comfortable/reliable, less worry about damage, better on fuel, etc). The plus side of this is that there's probably some folks from far away that decided to make the drive when they otherwise wouldn't have. The down side is that people who want see pre-49 hot rods are watering down their own show.
Just another side of the story......
There are also a lot of people from far away (like me in Minnesota) that won't attend anymore as the drive and costs aren't worth it to see a show like many of the other big shows. What made it worth the drive was the fact it was only pre49. Now I can see the same thing at BTt50s in Minneapolis, or GoodGuys shows that are closer and more fun.
They announced 10,100 registered. Id guess 15 to 20% were 49 and newer.As someone said, there were pre 49 attendees who drove their "late model" cars. Used to get 11,00 or more pre 49 cars. Therefore, Id say 1500 to 2500 early cars disappeared.Thats almost a car show by itself.
YEAR - ATTENDANCE
2004 - 11,524
2005 - 11,333
2006 - 11,664
2007 - 11,400 approximately, I could not find a solid number
2008 - 10,711
2009 - 11,003 40th anniversary of the nats
2010 - 10,200 approximately, that was the number I had heard
I really don't think it is fair to compare last years numbers to this years but if you eliminate 2009 you will see a decline that started in 2007, long before changing the cutoff date was ever talked about seriously. Now that we have facts about attendance numbers we can proceed
If anybody has solid numbers that they would like to add to this list I would love to see them. I am curious to see if there has been a 12% swing in attendance numbers in the past.
These numbers all came from event coverage articles in Street Rodder Magazine. I don't know how real they are but have no reason to doubt them.
Most everyone will accept the FACT that there was NOT the number of cars on the fairgrounds that NSRA said was registered.
1 ) some memebrs fail to show up and pickup their registrations
2 ) Some members register a car ... to just get the passes so they can get on the fairgrounds cheaper
( I have done this myself ).
3 ) Show promoters inflate their numbers ... So the media will say 10 thousand cars ...
SO ... spectators will come and pay admission fees, other rodders will come in the future and VENDORS will pay the big $$$ to set up and sell their wares.
Just go over to a big area and count the rows of parking. 20 rows of 50 cars in each row is only a thousand cars. Subtract at least 30 or more for car taking two spaces ( trailers and camp set up with chairs ) ... plus all the shade awnings ...
See will se there is no way there is over 8 thousand vehicles on the fairgrounds. MAX.
I have been going to the NSRA Nats since the old days of them moving it ... every year to a different location. St Paul is my favorite location. Columbus is second. Memphis is too hot and Oklahoma was pretty hot also.
NSRA is not the only event losing car counts. Shades of the Past is down. I believe GoodGuys is down ( Charlotte and Indy are ). The only event I know of that has maintained a high car count ... year after year is the LA Roadster show They have not diluted the show by allowing newer vehicles in ... They only allow roadsters ... and they fill the place up. Almost a thousand 1936 and earlier roadsters ... ( that have to be finished ... no rats ) and cars come from all over North America to be in that event.
Bottom line ... if you like the new rules for going ( 30 years or older vehicles ) ... then by all means go and have a good time. If you do not like all the newer stuff ( or will not drive a thousand miles and spend 1,500 dollars for 3 or 4 days looking at stuff you do not care for ) then stay HOME.
I just plan to just go to the LA Roadster show a LOT more often .. ( I have been to LA 5 times ).
I never said there were exactly that many cars there. I only use those numbers as a point of reference to campare this year to other years. Ok?
I too have registered for the event to get the weekend pass for my wife and I. It is cheaper and it is easier to walk in to the show that way. I have done this at both GG and NSRA shows and think a lot of people do.
The point of my post was to illustrate that numbers were declining before the change in cutoff date. You also stated, and I agree, that most shows are down in registration numbers. Some continue to grow, HCP comes to mind. I can't explain it. I just thought that this thread needed some semblance of truth, however inflated it may or may not be. I just get tired of "car count was WAY down" when in reality we are talking about hundreds of cars, not thousands.
I wish they would move it up to 10 years and older then i can take my 05 Magnum in comfort.Cause i will have to paint it flat black with red wheels.
I have been an NSRA member since 1972 and attended most of the Nationals and several regional events. I have let my membership expire and have no intention of ever joining again. Yes, i have a couple of late model cars, a 1962 and 1970, but wouldn't take them to the nationals. A well built streetrod is as comfortable and reliable as anybody's late model. I only live about 2 hours from Louisville, but I wouldn't have gone if I were only 10 minutes away. They, the NSRA want to get younger people involved, but that didn't work in my family. I have 2 sons with streetrods and they both let their memberships expire too! I would have probably hung around with 1972 and earlier, but a 30 year slide rule is just TOO MUCH. The funny thing was I didn't even miss going to Louisville. Looking forward to the Frog Follies where the true streetrodders will be.
i agree with some of you guys. i went. i drove my truck "72 c10" it was still pretty good all except the damn Winnebago that i had to let out in traffic in the show. stupid. it was cool for me because i got to drive mine in but would rather have seen just the older models. they shouldnt have upped the year that much....
Separate names with a comma.