hi my name is thomas comerford. I own a 1953 chevy 210. i recently did a complete driveline conversion. newer straight chevy 292 a 700r4 tranny and the rear axle out of my uncles 55 bel air. the front suspension and steering is bone stock. i picked it up from the mechanic who put the finishing touches on the car like tuning the carb running new brake lines. while driving the car home i noticed is was wandering very badly all the way home. Just curious as to what could be the problem. i installed new kingpins about three years ago, driven very little since the kingpins were installed. The rest of the suspension hasn't been touched. I'm gonna have a look at it tomorrow just to see if there is anything obvious in terms of looseness. I have a rebuild kit that has new tie rod ends etc that i didn't use when i put the new kingpins in. Just not sure wether its the steering box or the suspension. when i put it away 2 years ago it wasn't that bad.
we can only guess. But you can get someone to sit in the car and wiggle the steering wheel back and forth, while you watch what happens underneath. Look for things like the idler arm moving around, slop in the steering box itself, tie rod ends, etc. Also you can jack up each front corner, one at a time, put the jack under the lower control arm. Then wiggle the tire and see what's loose, if anything.
Did you change to a different wheel and tire combination ? Have you changed stance ....ie. front end lower or higher than before ? Is it possible that your new kingpins are too tight ? This will give a "slip/stick" condition which causes you to oversteer.....which can cause "wander". Obviously check front end alignment.....especially camber and toe-in. Also .......steering box being adjusted too tight can be as big a problem as too loose. Had lots of these front ends under my beaters back in the day and also under my 1959 Corvette which is basically the same. A solution should not be too hard to figure out. Have fun
thanks for the info. yeah its pretty hard to pinpoint exactly what it could be. I'm gonna install the rest of the kit just to eliminate that and an alignment shop do the tweaking. that will at least eliminate the suspension hopefully.
nope the wheels and tires are the same since I've owned the car. My uncle installed the kingpins. not sure if they could be to tight. I haven't had the car aligned. when we did the kingpins three years ago my uncle did some minor adjustment on the steering box which helped. As i said it wasn't this bad before. regardless I'm gonna install the rest of the front end rebuild kit just to eliminate that aspect and have a shop that worked on my dads 83 camaro do an alignment and check the steering box. I hope so already spent a ton on this car.
Spent a ton. And likely going to spend a ton more. Seems to be the way it goes with old cars they continually need things that wear out replaced. Come to think about it that’s kinda like when people get old themselves and need knees and hips and other stuff changed out
First thing ...get a shop manual for the car. It has the specifications, adjustment procedures and trouble shooting guide. Chasing stuff like this needs to be systematic, otherwise you wind up chasing your tail. There's really not much adjustment on a steering box. Mainly it's just for setting pre-load. What I'm getting at is you cannot correct a loose box (one that needs refreshed) by adjusting it. It may actually feel tighter but in the end it's short lived and hastens wear.
Make sure to have the oldest guy in the shop do the alignment. The suspension in an old car is nothing like the strut frontends nowadays. And a young guy might not have ever seen an actual steering box. He's used to a rack and pinion.
This isn't anything you cant do. Spending a ton has its time and place. Count the "un-screws", match the "in-screws to that on the tie rods. The Idler arm will move more up and down than side to side. Jack it up, place jack stands under it. Grab the tire at the 12/6 o-clock position, wiggle it. Bearings. 3/9 o-clock, linkages. Need a friend to wiggle it, you look. Take your time, sometimes a little on the jack is a lot on the road.
There are lots of greased joints on those suspensions. Try greasing all of the grease fittings with a manual gun. You can get an idea of the amount of looseness in each joint by how much effort it takes to pump in the grease. You may find that the upper inner joints are the culprit. That was a common problem on those cars
You are going to have to inspect the steering and suspension looking for worn or loose parts. Don't overlook the steering box bolts and the idler arm pivot. Replace any worn parts, fill the shocks with hydraulic jack oil and get a front end alignment. While you are at it check that the wheels are true and the tires balance. The car will be transformed, no kidding. Guys who did this were amazed how easy their car steered and how nice it handled. It took away all desire for a suspension swap or power steering not to mention being a lot easier and cheaper.
First check the steering box out, you will need a helper to either watch or work the wheel. See how far it turns at the steering wheel before there is movement at the pitman arm or draglink. This is where the manual comes in handy, do not attempt to adjust the box without one. Make sure it has grease it. When you change the tie rods, match and measure up the old ones, both sides from grease fitting to grease fitting within 1/16". The toe adjustment is big on a car wandering or not. I aligned my '59 Ford at a borrowed front end rack, I didn't trust any shop to give it a try. It steers very nicely for manual steering.
Read Jim's (Squirrel) post in post 2 again and follow it. put the car up on stands or even with the front tires on ramps and while you are under it watching have your helper gently rock the wheel back and forth as far as the slack goes. From where it stops moving with 1 finger to where it stops moving with 1 finger. Start at the box and the pitman arm and you should be able to see the pitman arm move as the wheel turns if it is tight. Check the connection between the pitman arm and the drag link and then the connection between the drag link and the bell crank. See if the bell crank is tight to it's mount or if it wiggles in the mount. The rubber piece between the bell crank and the crossmember is prone to crapping out because oil leaks from the engine break down the rubber. Move on out though the tie rods checking each end for play. Now you can go dig out the old kit and either go though and replace all of the pieces or just replace the worn pieces but you should have a good handle on what is actually worn.
After a road test, checking the front and rear suspension and steering components is the second thing to do as part of a good alignment. What you are looking for is any component where the input side moves but the output side doesn't. the advantage of testing the car sitting on the ground or on ramps is twofold. (1) The car is sitting at normal ride height so all the worn parts are in their most worn position.(2) By wiggling the steering wheel you have the mechanical advantage of the steering box ratio to impart way more force on the components than just wiggling them by hand.
thanks guys appreciate all the tips. I also have the shop manual from the guy i bought it off of. The guys doing the alignment are really good and know how to work on the old cars. i was also looking engine weight for the stock 235 that was in there vs the 292 i installed. the difference is about 70 pounds or so so having that much less weight I'm sure contributed as well.
If you adjust the steering box for play get the factory manual and follow it exactly. You can wear out a steering box in a month if you adjust it wrong. Ask me how I found this out lol.
Getting your front end parts and adjustments to spec is critical. But, also expectations...it will never drive like a late model with rack and pinion steering etc...but that is also the charm. You need to "drive" the old cars.
Your old car will never handle like a Lotus with stock suspension. Even wider radials up front may have a negative impact on steering effort. My '59 Ford was 100% rebuilt, I took 1 coil out of the springs and installed a big sway bar, aligned it. About as good as it gets.
It's true a 53 Chev is never going to handle like a sports car. But if set up right the steering will be easy, smooth, reasonably accurate and a pleasure to drive. Very few people know how good they can be because very few bother to make good all the worn parts, fill the shocks with oil, get an alignment and put GOOD well balanced tires on trued up wheels. But those who do, find out why they were so popular as a new car.
To check for front end wear put the car up on jack stands and slide a 2X4 under the tire, lift up against the tire and try to move it from side to side. There should be little or no movement. Have a helper do this while you look under the car to see which joints are moving if any. Also, shake hands with the tie rods, the idler arm, have someone seesaw the steering wheel back and forth while you look for loose joints. Any visible movement needs to be corrected.
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