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Projects Little Red Roadster Resurection - original 1929 body on original 1932 frame

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Fyresq, Sep 24, 2018.

  1. 1-SHOT
    Joined: Sep 23, 2014
    Posts: 1,277

    1-SHOT
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    IMG_8551.JPG They have all the right equipment, a Shark measuring system and centerline gauges hanging on the wall, and a tram bar and they will lock it down on a Chief Easy-Liner. Looks like you picked the right shop clean and well equipped.
     
  2. Fyresq
    Joined: Nov 18, 2017
    Posts: 42

    Fyresq
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Minden, NV

  3. Fyresq
    Joined: Nov 18, 2017
    Posts: 42

    Fyresq
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Minden, NV

    Got the frame back today. Laser straight and measurements are good but she took a little damage. I’m confident that I can weld it (certified structural) but I’m gonna have to strip the paint off and figure out what I’m dealing with. Looks like there was some frame damage before that was brazed but where it tore was metal so I think the brass was used to fill holes and possibly a frame crack on top. I’ll end up cutting out the inner boxing for about 12 inches, plate the inside of the outside rail and then rebox the inner.
     
  4. Fyresq
    Joined: Nov 18, 2017
    Posts: 42

    Fyresq
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Minden, NV

    Some of the “wrinkles” you see are the thick paint, not metal. The frame guy said it was much harder than anticipated and he thinks the frame was twisted a little before it was boxed. I’m sure the almost 90 year old frame already had some issues. Still only cost $300. And I’ll have a lot more time in it than if I just had a new one built but at least I can say it’s original
     
  5. I'll tell ya I would have done exactly what you have up to this point. You never know how well things will work out till you try. You did that. Now, if it were me I would step back and assess things again. From the photos above I do believe my decision would be to make Wall Hangers out of them and buy a new set of rails. If a previous builder was willing to hide that under paint, don't expect the boxing welds to be any better. Might be time to cut your losses and move a different direction.
    The Wizzard
     
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  6. Love the work you are doing on it...tough call...but go the way you think is best...

    MikeC
     
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  7. Fyresq
    Joined: Nov 18, 2017
    Posts: 42

    Fyresq
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Minden, NV

    I’ll be stripping the paint and seeing if I can’t melt the brass out and see what they were trying to do/hide. This thing has had different generations of welders and looking at the rear crossmember welds they look pretty decent. The brass still doesn’t look structural as the tear (and it’s a true tear, not clean like a joined area) is thru metal, not brass. I think I can make that section stronger than it ever was by oval/football plating the inside. Im assuming that since the rear crossmember is welded to the box plating that whoever did the crossmember likely did the boxing. I also realized the boxing plate is diamond plate (1/8”) in the inside (was diamond plate available in the 50’s?) and was likely added later but it’s beefy to say the least. I’m not gonna call it a loss yet at this point even though I was ready to do that before. I have a straight frame. The pictures look a heck of a lot worse than it does with the eye. The body shop felt there wouldn’t be any problem with that area that tore (he told me it happens all the time especially since the box plating is thicker than original frame) and he even offered to weld it for me.
     
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  8. 1-SHOT
    Joined: Sep 23, 2014
    Posts: 1,277

    1-SHOT
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    IMG_8561.JPG IMG_4156.JPG Yes diamond plate was available, and the original builder used what ever he could find or have access to. That's just the way it was done back then. Just look at the old car of Norms the Cookie Car that Brizeo is restoring
     
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  9. 42˚18'N 83˚09'W
    Joined: Jul 29, 2008
    Posts: 98

    42˚18'N 83˚09'W
    Member

    I think if it were me and I was stuck on using this frame I would brace the frame so you don't have to straighten again after this procedure. Cut out the boxing plate at the steering box location at least 10-12 inches either side of the tear. Make sure you have removed all of the brass from previous repairs. Then I would weld in a 3/16" backing plate fitted to the inside of the frame rail extending at least 6" beyond the tear and repeat the process on the inside top and bottom. Now you have what I would consider a pretty good repair. Now to finish the job, I would replace the boxing plate, which if you removed the 10-12" beyond the tear as previously mentioned, should extend well beyond your repair leaving a 4-6" overlap on the end joints. Good luck and remember "Measure twice, cut once".
     
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  10. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 12,917

    alchemy
    Member

    I've never had good luck melting out brazing. It will always leave a residue. I think the best is to blast clean, then you can grind it out.
     
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  11. 1-SHOT
    Joined: Sep 23, 2014
    Posts: 1,277

    1-SHOT
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I like to use a rotary file to remove it, when you grind it be sure to use a sharp disc .
     
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  12. saltracer219
    Joined: Sep 23, 2006
    Posts: 576

    saltracer219
    Member

    I would have that frame blasted clean, then finish assessing the damage, so far there is nothing that I have seen that would scare me off. If you are a decent fabricator\welder you can get that frame in shape pretty quickly. Adding the K member will do wonders for the strength of that frame. You might want to talk to your frame guy and see if you can work with him and do the repairs and the k member install on his table so things dont move around too much during the final repair. Great project, good luck!
     
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  13. If your going to add a football shaped boxing plate inside the rails, instead of just doing a perimeter weld on it think about just drilling multiple 1/2" holes in the new plate and Plug welding it in place. I've done it that way the few times I've had to. Seemed to keep the weld from drawing the rails due to weld shrinking. I also do this on sheet metal if I ever have to do a lap weld.
    The Wizzard
     
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  14. Fyresq
    Joined: Nov 18, 2017
    Posts: 42

    Fyresq
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Minden, NV

    I’m a big fan of rosette welding and of course oval vs. square plating as well as versed in triangulation from building roll cages and I know I can make the area way stronger than it ever was originally. The welding part doesn’t scare me honestly, my main concern at this point is if I’m going to have issues with the crossmembers.
     
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  15. Fyresq
    Joined: Nov 18, 2017
    Posts: 42

    Fyresq
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Minden, NV

    I’m likely going to be using a 39 style transmission I have....what are some opinions on using a 32 style k member with 32 style pedals vs using 40 style x member and 39 style pedals. I’m definitely going with juice brakes and removing the front discs and replacing with a set of Buick finned drums I have. I know space is even tighter with a 29 body on a pinched frame. What crossmember, pedal combo do you feel would work best?


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  16. I've posted these photos several times over the years. I always liked this one. It's a lay out of things to come.
    Nov 2011 x 3 001.jpg What your looking at there is two sections of a pair of Model A rails. A 37 Ford X member. 38 front Axle. 36 rear Axle. 39 Trans mount and a 30 AA Truck front crossmember as well as a stock A rear one. This pile is all renderings from other builds. In other words Scrap Iron. It ended up like this.
    Test fit #1 004.jpg Pinched in the back. Spring behind the rear housing and in front of the front Axle and a Stock Model A wheel base. Absolutely no kick in the frame and no split front bones. Running a set of 39 pedals. Front motor mounts are F-1 with a little adjustment (in fact everything has a little adjustment). It also runs a stock Flathead 4 blade mechanical Fan.
    02-15-12 002.jpg Here is how it sits with the Channeled 30 Body on it. The plan for it when finished is to be Full Fendered.
    P1010243.JPG So this is just Food for Thought and a little insight to what you could do with things laying around. My whole mission here was to do No hand carved or mail order parts. Keep everything Ford and all pre 1957. So far all that's missed the mark is the Exhaust headers and the Gas tank. Both items are built to fit the space alloted. Probably much as I would have done as a Teenager if I could have at that time. Hope this gives you some ideas and gets you to the next step.
    The Wizzard
     
  17. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 9,548

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hey I remember that Hotrod...Colbert approved...
    Chain Verified Temporary...;)

    Don't mean to Hijack but hows that coming along?

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...ogenized-hotrods.1002926/page-2#post-11311045

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...ogenized-hotrods.1002926/page-2#post-11311137


     
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  18. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 9,548

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    @Fyresq the frame looks great...I admire the effort taken to keep the Hotrod united...;)
     
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  19. Short answer, It's resting. Made a lot of progress since last photo but as life goes other things take priority. Retirement isn't what I thought it would be.:confused:
    The Wizzard
     
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  20. Super88
    Joined: Nov 21, 2001
    Posts: 377

    Super88
    Member

    Isn't that the truth about retirement? I'm still waiting for all that "extra" time I thought I was going to have.
     
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  21. bct
    Joined: Apr 4, 2005
    Posts: 2,897

    bct
    Member

    go for the x member. less flex
     
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  22. Exactly one of the reasons I used the 37 unit. Much more stable than the 32 unit. Another plus is that unit is used for several years and much easier to find. You can buy repro 39 pedal unit if you so like. A guy can get over a Grand in the same 32 only parts. The 35 up X member ends behind the firewall so it's out of sight. I drew my frame together 2 inches at the front Body mount bolt to make the Channel job go easier and the 39 pedals still have plenty of operating room. Yes I did heat them just a bit but that was so they were evenly spaced on each side of the steering column, that was not a big deal. They just had to look correct.
    The Wizzard
     
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