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Technical Lime Gold Lacquer toner source??

Discussion in 'Traditional Customs' started by K13, Feb 1, 2014.

  1. Quick question. There is a guy selling some old unopen RM acrylic lacquer on Ebay. He has two tinting based available one in Gold (AT-175) and one in Yellow toner (AT-177) do any of you lacquer gurus know anything about them or think either would be a possible base to build this colour off of?
     
  2. allkiller
    Joined: Dec 14, 2010
    Posts: 7

    allkiller
    Member
    from London

  3. I remember that car when it first came out I think it was one of the first to be painted with the colour flip paint. I appreciate the pictures but not really what I am after.

    I talked to Jon Kosmoski today. Really nice guy. He said that the Lime Gold is one of their purest toners and would definitely be close to what was being used in the 50′s. They actually source the pigments for it in Canada so that’s kind of a cool tie in. He then called back and left a message saying that he had tried mixing some pagan gold with their Orion Silver Max and said it was a really nice lime gold colour. Even though I don’t want to go with BC/CC I at least know now that the HOK toners should be fairly close to what I am trying to do.
     
  4. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 6,023

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    The HOK candy concentrates CAN be mixed with lacquers!
     
  5. All right we got some warmer weather here this weekend so I quickly threw down some of my candy lacquer gold powder mix. After thinking I had too much powder in it I think I could use a little more as reducing 150% really thins out the amount in the paint. This is over a grey base and about 7 coats. No clear so it is still a little dull and it is very hard to get a good picture. It was sprayed in less that ideal conditions so there is a lot of crap in the paint as well but it gives me an idea of the look. The gold metallic really pops in the sun in real life.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Whoo ya! If the weather holds, next time try this over a zinc chromate base, and I'll bet you'll hit alittle closer to home.:)

    Those Rinish Mason toners ( AT177 & AT 187 ) are probably from the 70s-80s, and may contain alittle larger ground aluminum flake than that used in 1950.

    That '40 Shev-oh-lay drop top looks to have been shot over a silver base, with pearl and lime candy, not a bad look on a street rod, but a traditional kustom???????????????NOPE!


    " Do not reach greedly for the Kool-Aid "
     
  7. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,587

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    The last time I visited this topic the modern color thing was on my mind. That day, while traveling to one of my other jobs, I got passed by a late model small Ford. I don't know what it was, perhaps the size of an Escort. It had a lime gold color on it that just screamed early kustom. I haven't been in the neighborhood of a Ford dealer to see it in person, but the vibe was there in spades. It had small poly, green values, a touch of yellow in direct light, and it got my attention for no more than the ability to repair the car in the future. I may get to a Ford dealer by chance this afternoon, and in the body shop at that. Best place to get the info/code. Stay tuned, or if you know the color...?
     
  8. Thanks pimpin I was thinking maybe just a gold base would work as well.

    I think I know the colour you are talking about Highlander. I think it is on 2013 Fiesta? I really like it but it might be a little too green for my tastes. I think it is called Lime Squeeze (SQ). If that is the one you are thinking of.
     
  9. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal


    Hey HIGHLANDER, two colours come to mind on the late model Ford passenger car line up for 2014: " Green Envy " on the Fiesta models, and the " Gotta Have It Green '' on the Mustangs for 2014.

    If I were gonna purchase either of these colours for a project, I'd insist on a '' factory package '' colour mix, and not a shop mix! Both of these colours contain mica, and several different toners that may or may not be in the mix, on a shop mix.:(

    I'm kinda diggin the " Tangerine Scream " on the Focus & Fiesta models. For a late model colour it's gotta kustom colour vibe!:D

    " The ice cream truck in his neighborhood plays Helter-Skelter "
     
  10. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,587

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

  11. jcmarz
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 4,633

    jcmarz
    Member
    from Chino, Ca

    You are on the right track K13. Forget those modern colors.
     
  12. Thanks Highlander that is definitely more along the lines than what I have seen. Looks like it is probably Yellow Blaze metallic?

    I have some new (the right) powder and some lacquer gold base coming so I will see what I can come up with when it arrives. Probably not until April as I have to ship it to Montana and go pick it up and I won't be down that way until then as it is about an 8 hour drive from where I am at.
     
  13. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

     
  14. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

     
  15.  
  16. Well here we go again. I got the Crescent Bronze Company #252 powder and played around a bit more this time I did it the way Manuel explained. First I bought some cheap premixed lacquer clear and mixed the powder in it. About 1/4 TSP to 2.5 ounces of the clear.

    [​IMG]

    Then I spray that down for a base again over the grey primer. This went on beautifully.

    [​IMG]

    Next I mixed the powder with the candy lime gold the same ratio as the clear but this time unreduced so it would be thinned 150% and sprayed that over the gold base 2 coats.

    [​IMG]

    Then I thinned the candy powder solution 1/1 with clear and shot one coat. Unfortunately by the time I was done this it had become really cloudy so the outside picture is not great but here it is.

    [​IMG]

    Now this was all kind of rushed and I was having some issues with my crappy little touch up gun so it's not the best and I think I would like to see more coats of the candy/powder mixture to give it more of the lime ting but it is not bad. Maybe I will try slapping down a couple of coats of straight candy over top of it after to see what that does to it. Definitely getting closer to what I had in mind. Very exciting!! Now whether I can do this on an entire vehicle is another matter altogether but we will see.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2014
  17. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 6,023

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    Straight candy will help with depth, and also hide the "2 stage" look that happens if there is flake in the candy all the way through. But it will also darken up your color. You're on the right track, might have to go backwards a couple steps if the color gets too dark...i.e....flake in the first coat or 2 of candy, and then straight candy to cover that, and get the color you want. then clear.
     
  18. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,587

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    "...on the whole vehicle...", indeed that will take a full commitment. Once you start you have to see it through. I'll spill one of my metallic tricks here. From a distance they all look similar. It's up close, looking at the surface, I always see it as piles of poly. Like a mini mountain range maybe. To avoid that look I get all the coverage done + 1 or 2 coats depending on the color. The next step is to level that surface. 1200 works well for this but a more coarse poly might like 1000, strictly in the interest of time and efficiency. You'll see what you're removing in the 1st few passes. The next step is to reduce the metallic color an additional 50%. Yes, 50%. Remember, it's already covered and "colored up". In addition to the reduction you want to drop the pressure. I've gone as low as 25PSI in the old siphon feed days but with the newer guns, all of them with their own personality, you'll want to experiment a bit to get a wide and soft pattern. Like a mist you just wash over every surface but don't let it go on dry. Forget percentages of overlap, side to side, up or down, just look for the same appearance you see when you're floating the mix to the top of the can. Again, avoid dryness, keep it moist but not full wet. This is a visual exercise, something not everyone will notice on it's own, but they will be drawn to it. Daylight will dance on all the body lines and reveals and highlight soft curves. Seal that down with a few coats of clear and take off with whatever you want next. The finer the poly the more critical this is. It will net a magical look to the underbase of a kandy and for straight metallic colors there's nothing in the pattern to see, not even through polarized sunglasses. Hope this makes sense.
     
  19. Thanks guys. These pictures turned out really orange but the actual colour is a lot less so. I might try putting a couple more coats of straight candy overtop. Again I am not going for a candy colour at all I just haven't found a non candy lime gold toner yet to work with. I wonder if someone might be able to mix a lacquer for me based on the HOK candy toner colour?

    Thanks for the tips Highlander. I was surprised how well and even the gold powder/clear mixture went down. It is a very fine poly so your advice should come in very handy.
     
  20. One more coat of straight candy and a bit better lighting. It really has a pagan gold type look with green overtones. I need a better camera to take a picture as I am using my phone right now.
    [​IMG]

    Here are some after shooting some clear. I used a better camera this time so the lime tone comes across much better.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2014
  21. Quick question for the paint guys. What tip size would you recommend for spraying lacquer? I have just been using a little touch up gun that is a 0.8 but I need to get a decent gun to spray my truck and have no idea what is required to spray lacquer. I have connections with all the gun companies but most of the sales people are only educated on what is required to spray waterbourne as that is all that is legal to spray in the automotive industry up here.
     
  22. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey Ian,

    For years I shot RM Alphacryl @ 125-150 reduction with my Binks #7 with a 36SD tip. This would provide a full 10''-12'' pattern with great flow out and little peel. Most of today's ''perfume dusters'' won't do this until you step up to the bigger money Satas & Iwatas. A gun that sprays a dry, peel laden coat ain't gonna serve ya well with a multi coloured/toned lacquer job!

    I'd love ta tell ya that a 1.3 or 1.4 tip on a HVLP gun would work out well, but @ what reduction and @ what pressure you'll be spraying I can only guess? FWIW a candy or pearl finish are usually shot @ 75% overlap so you may have to adjust your spray pattern over a bc/cc method.
     
  23. I can probably get my hands on any of the Iwata or Devillbis guns as I am close with local reps for both lines so I am not too concerned about that part. I have been reducing about 150% so far as that's what HOK recommends with what I have been using. I am not really sure if this would be classified as a candy for spray technique or not as there is powder in every coat even though the base was a candy. I guess if I can get a rough idea of what I need I could get a different needle set if it it a real problem. Thanks for the advise.


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  24. subjectdelta
    Joined: Apr 28, 2014
    Posts: 14

    subjectdelta
    Member

    its been years since i thought that much (lacquer) or painting.used the gold powder for base put it in blender clear.mixed 1to1 you want it to lay flat. an uneven or ruff finish is magnified by candy an pearl.
    under the clear.
    look seedy under candy.an pearl will show any orange pl. before house of color.dyes. there was just mixing toners. fast red, fast green ,fast blue ,gold toner,the fine mixing silver for met. colors an the gold powder. murano pearl. from the mearl co. it was led based. like a oil with the pearl powder multi. colors.
    cat yellow,roadrunner green,gm orange. made good bases for the multi. color pearls. i liked black with
    pearl for dark candies. the pearls were transparent you add to any coat of clear.any color of candy to get diff.effect.
    my best candy an pearl gun was binks 18. with special needle an cap. perfect pattern.not alot of matt.
    you had to slow down an wait.let the gun an a hot thinner give you the right finish. r/m use to check. when you recoated it once it dried.other brands never acted this way.
    i have bought some of these prods. Kustom shop.com
     
  25. subjectdelta
    Joined: Apr 28, 2014
    Posts: 14

    subjectdelta
    Member

    its been years since i thought that much (lacquer) or painting.used the gold powder for base put it in blender clear.mixed 1to1 you want it to lay flat. an uneven or ruff finish is magnified by candy an pearl.
    under the clear.
    look seedy under candy.an pearl will show any orange pl. before house of color.dyes. there was just mixing toners. fast red, fast green ,fast blue ,gold toner,the fine mixing silver for met. colors an the gold powder. murano pearl. from the mearl co. it was led based. like a oil with the pearl powder multi. colors.
    cat yellow,roadrunner green,gm orange. made good bases for the multi. color pearls. i liked black with
    pearl for dark candies. the pearls were transparent you add to any coat of clear.any color of candy to get diff.effect.
    my best candy an pearl gun was binks 18. with special needle an cap. perfect pattern.not alot of matt.
    you had to slow down an wait.let the gun an a hot thinner give you the right finish. r/m use to check. when you recoated it once it dried.other brands never acted this way.
    i have bought some of these prods. Kustom shop.com
     
  26. Thanks. I am actually going to be meeting with Manuel while I am in California for holidays next week. He has found some old lacquer toners at a friends shop and has been kind enough to do some spray outs for me to check out so hopefully by next week I will have a better idea of what I am going to be doing with paint.
     
  27. Well in case anyone is still interested I think I have figured out the colour or I should say Manuel Reyes has figured out the colour for me. I met with him in California last week while I was on holidays and he was kind enough to do a spray out of how he believes the colour was probably shot.

    This was his procedure:

    2 medium wet coats of base (Crescent Bronze Company #252 powder and clear)
    3 medium wet coats of lemon yellow toner with a drop of that strong green toner, a little clear plus some gold powder.
    3 medium wet coats of the above mixture with a little more clear mixed in.
    3 medium wet coats of just clear.

    This was all shot in lacquer and here is the result. I find it very hard to capture these colours with a camera but this is close.

    IMG_7781.JPG IMG_7782.JPG
     
  28. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,587

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    Good for you brutha. I'd bet there won't be another even close within 1000 miles. Did you duplicate it at home yet or still on holiday? Don't forget, if you want to be 1 way or the other "away" from the original just change your base. Black, white or red oxide will "backfill" to your eye just right. So when do we see it finished? Like next week? :eek:
     
  29. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 6,023

    chopolds
    Member
    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    Great news, it looks good, though I know Candies almost never look "right" in photos!
     
  30. Thanks guys! Haha No Highlander it will not be done next week. I haven't tried to replicate it at home yet. Manuel is going to mix the paint for me from a stash of old lacquer that a friend of his has (that was what was used to spray these samples) and then send it to me.

    It's not really a candy per say Mark it is just the thinness of lacquer paint that gives it a bit of that look as it is just standard lacquer colours and toners that Manuel used.
     

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