Hot Rods life expectancy

i've always heard radials will last longer than a bias ply mileage wise.

if you're not doing smoky launches from every stop, how much further can you go on the radial?

i guess what i'm getting at is, are the bias ply looking radials worth the extra 100 bucks per tire over the regular bias ply tire? i guess mileage isn't the only concern, does the better ride and handling make up for the price difference?

 

When I went from bias to radials on my ‘62, it handled like a totally different car. Not that I’m auto crossing it, but man were those bias tires harsh riding in comparison.

 

In general all tire- ALL TIRES seem to be made of cheaper quality materials lately. So the life expectancy of new rubber will be less much less of those old tires you find that are still pliable.
Also most small batch tire places like Coker, are not warranting their tires for XX,XXX amount of miles, at least not that I have seen.

that said there will be the old - "dont run old tires" person on here.
I do see people running really old tires.

regardless all tires are Run at your own risk, unless you bought them directly from one of the major dealers.

 

I replaced the 5.60 15’s and 8.20 15 Firestones on the roadster with the Coker bias look radials. I like them better, especially on rougher roads and for low speed steering effort. Others won’t agree with that. So I guess it’s personal.

The other odd thing (not between the types) is in WA state they won’t repair any tire over 7 years old, even if the manufacturer says they’re good for 10. Not illegal to run, to repair. One of the first thing adjusters look at after an accident supposedly.

 

Tires on most collector cars will age out before they get worn out, so you should be replacing them at the same time regardless of which you go with.

 

I'm on my third set of Diamondback wide white radials on my avatar. The first two sets went about 25,000 miles each and then the tread separated in the 10th or 11th year each time. To me, that is an acceptable tire life for an occasional weekend and car show driver.

 

In 1972 when I worked in a Firestone store the best bias Deluxe champion was rated for 25K but that called for having them rotated every 5 K and the alignement checked every 5 K.
I haven't run the Look like bias radials yet so I can't comment on that.
I'd say that 70 % of the members on here have tires that age out and start cracking before they wear out.
With just plain black wall radials I was getting 20/25K on the 195 14 front tires and 60+ on the 255 15 rear tires (a 250 doesn't eat up many tires) . I was putting 20K a year or more on the truck though.
when it is back together it will probably be around 10 after the first batch of road trips to events I want to go to.

 

Tire aging is mostly BS....

From Goodyear's warranty page... emphasis added...

"Time in Service v. Time in Years
It is impossible to predict when a tire should be replaced based on its calendar age alone. Although no widely accepted scientific research exists to show that chronological aging alone adversely affects a tire, and if so, how those effects occur, over what time period, etc., the longer a tire is in service, the more opportunities there are for it to be exposed to adverse environmental or service conditions. Therefore, the older a tire the greater the chance that it will need to be replaced due to service-related or storage conditions."

If you live in the sunbelt, degrading from heat is an issue. In the original NHTSA draft report following the Ford Explorer/Firestone debacle, it was noted in the appendix that aging was heat related. What was also noted the rate of aging was exponential as temps went up, so a tire will age much slower in cooler climates. If you live in Phoenix (where the test was performed, and selected because it had the highest average daily temps of all urban areas in the US), six years was the 'recommended' time period. Reduce the temp by 15 degrees and the aging rate drops to less than half. Go lower, the aging process slows even more.

Also in the appendix, the NHTSA searched three years' worth of accident reports from all 50 states and was unable to find even one documented case of an 'aged' tire being the cause of an accident. Road hazards were number one, followed by underinflation (also the cause of the Explorer failures).

This whole thing is simply a way for the tire manufacturers to escape liabilty, dreamed up by lawyers. The tire retailers love it, easy tire sales for them...

It's up to YOU to do your due diligence as to maintaining/inspecting your tires.

 

both replies above are great- good to know on Diamondbacks, though the base tire life is what it should be and they reasonable good base tires.

Also the rotation, I am do for this on my Cokers, thanks for the reminder!!!

 

My hot rods don't get specialty tires, they get regular radial tires. I put between 8,000 and 10,000 miles a year on the hot rod, so I buy radial tires rated at between 50,000 - 60,000 miles. When the tread gets close to being wore off (or the wet traction drops off, usually the marking point for me) I'm pretty close to the mile expectancy and their 5-7 year stated tire life age expectancy. It just works well for me.

As far as the "look like bias" radial tires, the tire build it still radial. It carries the same advantages (or disadvantages as some say) as any other radial as far as handling is concerned, but have that square edge tread look the old bias tires had. Way back in the 70s, the radial tires were sold as having about a 20,000 mile longer tread life then belted bias tires, and about 30,000 mile longer tread life then the non-belted bias ply tires. Most of the bias tires on the market these days are non-belted bias tires. If you believe the tires age out in 5-7 years, the extra mileage probably won't matter, and only the handling would make up the difference for the extra cost. Weather or not the extra cost is worth it or not, would depend on how you feel about radial tires vs bias tires, and how bad you want that bias tire look.

Tire life age expectancy would probably have more effect then the miles you drive, depending on how fast you believe that tires degrade as they age. Most hot rods don't get driven enough miles to be concerned about the tire mileage wear before they "age" out.

 

One more thing bears mentioning. When bias-ply was the only choice, it was common to adjust tire pressure to promote even tire wear and sometimes improve ride quality. Go multiple sizes oversized, it was common to lower pressure to get even wear. Any heat build-up was fairly evenly distributed throughout the whole tire because of the tire construction.

That doesn't work with radials. With their rigid belted tread, the majority of tire flex has been moved to the sidewall, with most at the junction of the sidewall/tread. Reduce pressure as you would with a bias-ply, this introduces more heat at that junction, leading to premature failure. That was the problem with the Explorers, Ford recommended a low pressure (low 20s) to improve ride (with Firestone's knowledge) and blowouts occurred. You should maintain a minimum pressure of at least 26 PSI in any radial, 30 would be better.

 

"Tire aging is mostly BS..."

While I agree with your conclusion that the onus is on the vehicle owner to ensure the tires are in good condition, tire aging is not BS. I will agree that a one-size-fits-all approach to tire replacement due to age is nonsensical.

Rubber does age and its properties degrade over time in air. This is accelerated by heat, UV, the surfaces it is used on, environments and chemicals it is exposed to, etc. There's also the bond between the layers of the tire that can break down over time and accelerated by heat, etc. An old tire is a lot more likely to separate than a new tire for this reason.

Tire aging for you in WA, me in Alberta, and someone in AZ or Florida, are all entirely different use cases. For most people, their tires wear out before it becomes a problem. It is mainly only a problem for those of us who don't wear out our tires before the risk of a tire failure due to age is high. Documented accidents or not, I wouldn't ignore it.
Is the recommendation to replace after a certain period of time a way to decrease potential liability? Absolutely. Is it dreamed up by lawyers with no scientific basis at all? Absolutely not.

 

I’ve got a 60 year old bias tire still holding air
I’m not driving on it though

 

running big and littles rule out rotating them

 

Sure would look funny!

 

you need another hot rod with big and little to solve that!

 

Goodyear ADMITS there's no workable scientific basis for accurately determining when a tire will 'age out'. Yes, there are 'recommendations' and 'guidelines' but a one-size-fits-all solution is stupid. The retailer is stealing from me when he says my tires are 'unsafe' merely because of their age, even though there are zero signs of distress. The manufacturers used to recommend that you have them checked at specific ages by a 'tire tech' to determine if they were still serviceable. When the only thing they look at is the date code before making this pronouncement, my faith in them is low.

I'm simply trying to educate people. I don't go to tire stores anymore except when I buy new tires (and not always even then). I have my own tire changer, so I do my own repairs...

 

Back in the day bias ply tires went about 15,000 to 20,000 miles and were warn out. Radial tires that I have had usually go 75,000 miles before they need to be replaced. On a collector car or hot rod tires will probably age out before they wear out.

 

Heads up from a friend in the tire business. When buying new be sure and check
the manufactured date. Odd sizes, 13, 14, even 15" tires could have been sitting in a
warehouse for years.

 

All it will take is a perfectly good looking out dated tire to come apart and have you loose control or destroy a quarter panel .If you make it through this you will replace your outdated tire no matter how they look.

 

Doesn't seem like you read or understood my entire post. Have a good one.

 

from what I have read on here, (a lot), the Auburn radial (bias look) handles much better than the bias tyres.
That alone would be worth the extra dollars, if you specifically want that look.
Don’t know about life span.

 

I'd run a 20 year old bias ply before I used a 7 year old radial if I was in a pinch...

 

Mark, I'm curious how the trailer was stored. I'm assuming it was outside (tire covers), was it parked on concrete or in contact with earth? I've found out (the hard way) that tires on concrete that gets wet or soil will leach 'stuff' out of whatever they're sitting on, degrading the rubber. Usually not a problem on vehicles if they're driven even semi-regularly, but extended time without moving will damage them. As far as I can tell, about six months will be enough to do it.

Tires fail. New, old, abused, etc, the reasons are many. I've had exactly one tire failure solely attributable to age, but that tire was north of 20 years old! And looked it. I've had more failures on 'new enough' tires by far. I quit going to Les Schwab as their tires accounted for over half of my failures.

 

Here’s my tire stories for what you make of it .

I’ve had many many many radial tires on my rides , from ultra high expensive Pirelli P zero yellow’s on my 69 lincolin ( this thing stuck to the road like it was on rails !! Incredible for a luxury barge like it was .( I was 20 years old so comfort was second to performance and handling, I’m sure the car suffered slightly in the comfort section )

To Cooper cobras on an o/t muscle car that handled very well .

2 tires that stick out in my memory that performed great .

Ive also owned cheap Chinese crap and other “ “good “ name brands that didn’t impress me in the slightest.

my first attempt at driving on bias plys was another o/t muscle car that had cragars on it and old Firestone “ wide oval “ bias plys . They looked cool with there squared off side walls fat tread looked like a street slick compared to a new tire . Car drove like crap . The 53 Chrysler came with some old bias ply www and that thing barely made it home , like it had a mind of its own going down the road !! Age of tires unknown but “ looked good “

when I bought my 40 merc it had some cheap ass old radials on it that where virtually brand new . Car drove “ meh”

on @Moriarity suggestion I got new cooker WWW’s
This thing drives “ as smooth as a gravy sandwich “


I have had the car for sale over the winter , I had a guy come see it last week end took him for a drive , when we got back to my house he wanted to negotiate , I told him price just went up a $1000 bucks .

“ sorry mate , just realized this is a special car “

screw that ! Drives sooooooo nice forgot how well it drives with the bias plys on her !!

anyways enough of a ramble for a Thursday night .

 

There is a lot of misunderstandings posted here concerning radial tires.
1) All tires have steel in them! All tires have steel in the tire beads.

2) The issue with the "steel" in most radial tires were steel belts. Those steel belts run around the tire under the tread surface and do not connect with the tire beads. Before the radial tires entered the main stream market in 1971 (or 72) even bias ply tires could have been purchased with steel belts as an option on the "long tread life bias ply tires. There are not many steal belted radial (or bias ply) tires on the market any more, most tires with steel belts were removed from the general public tire market nearly 20 years ago.

3) Radial tires still have "belts" under the thread, as do some high end bias ply tires. those "belts" are two layers of diagonal weaved material that lay only under the tire thread surface, made from different materials (nylon, Aramid, poly & more). One belt has the diagonal weave running one direction and the 2nd belt weave runs the opposite direction (like the cords on a bias ply tire). The bond in the tire is the only thing that keeps those belts in position. Heat breaks down the bonding agent the tire is made with. When the bond breaks down, the belts can shift or move (doesn't matter if it is a radial ply tire or a belted bias ply tire). That shift or movement is what causes the tire failures. The tire belts are applied with the same basic principle as the old recapped tires of the past (and present).

4) The entire difference between a bias ply and a radial ply tire is the direction of the basic weave of the first 2 or 4 layers the tires are constructed with. Most of the time, those basic layers are made from the very same material (nylon on cheaper tires Raylan on the higher priced tires).
On a bias ply tire that 1st layer (called a cord or ply) of nylon weaved material wraps around the steel bead (that has several steel wires interweaved into a loop) and goes across the tire case at about a 40 degree angle (depending on the use of the tire, that angle could be anywhere from 30 - 45 degrees) to the other steel bead. Bonded to it is the 2nd layer (cord or ply) that has the weave in the opposite 40 degree angle (matches the other cord/ply). The number of cords/plies used at this process determines the strength of the side wall of the tire, but the number is always even. A 4 ply sidewall has two more layers making a total of 4, an 8 ply truck tire has a total of 8 layers.
A radial tire has the basic weave running from the steel bead 90 degrees across the tire to the other steel bead. The radial cords/plies are bonded on top of each other, as 2 ply, 4ply or 8 ply sidewalls just like the bias ply tires.
That is the only difference between the two tire designs. The plies of the basic material weave either runs across the tire at an angle, or those plies of the basic material weave run straight across the tire at a 90 degree angle.

5) Once the tire case is complete, a belted tire has the belts (again, even number of belts, usually 2) bonded to the basic weave at the center of the distance between the steel beads. The width of those belts are determined by the width of the tire tread.

6) If belts are present, the rubber tread is bonded on top of the belts to the center and sidewalls (often through injection into the tire molds). If no belts are present, the tread and sidewall rubber is bonded directly to the cords/plies (through injection into the tire modes). It was discovered that adding the belts reduced the wear on the tread because it reduced the flexing of the thread on the road surface and it added protection from tire puncture from on the road contact with things.

The reason that radial tires were developed was because the angled first layers of the construction of the bias tires cause the distortion of the tire as the vehicle weight squeezed the tire between the bead and the tread surface caused the bias tires to flex at the road contact point. That flexing on the road surface causes the rubber to wear off faster and reduces the tire' ability to grip the road surface. Even with the earlier advent of adding belts to the bias ply tire, the radial ply reduced the tread flex even more. Adding belts to the radial tires improved their tread wear even more.

By running the ply weaving to run directly across the from bead to bead, the flex from the vehicle weight was transferred from the tread surface to the sidewall. This accomplished three things, A) It reduced the tread wear dramatically because the flex was no longer happening at the road contact point. B) Because the surface contact was no longer flexing, it dramatically increased the tires ability to grip the road surface. C) reducing the tread flexing also reduced the friction of the tire as it rolled so there was a slight increase in vehicle fuel mileage.

The radial ply design did add a few problems the bias ply design did not have very much. With adding belts to the radial ply design, more tire tread remained on the road surface and dramatically increased traction. That required stronger wheels to be made because the flex was now in the sidewall instead of on the tread at the road surface. The sidewall flex and more tire traction also required a more precision and a stronger front suspension because more of the corning forces were transferred to the suspension.

You don't have to believe me, look into tire construction and the differences between bias ply and radial ply tires. I did an 8 week study on tire construction in an auto mechanics class back in the early 70s.

 

This may be a little off theme but we own a motorhome we often take to car shows and events. I religiously take care of the radial tires, always check and adjust air pressure to within pound (on my gauge) every trip even locally 50 miles or less. Always take a good look at tires when checking pressure. Had alignment a couple years ago and tires were worn equally across width of tread and not even close to wear bars. These are 16 ply tires. When not in use, motorhome is kept in covered storage out of sun.

Most manufacturers recommend replacing tires after 6 years as well as experienced RV owners. I kind of po po that because the tires looked almost new with no cracks or weather checking. The tires were ten years old. They are also quite expensive at $600.00 each times six plus mounting, balancing, etc. We were returning home from a camping trip and had a low speed (thankfully) blow out on an inside rear dual. The oval shaped outline around the DOT information on the sidewall blew out almost 3/4 of the way around oval.

The tire service tech who come out to bring new tire and change tire looked at the date code and commented I was certainly living on borrowed time and tires should be replaced at no later than six/seven years from his experience. That was his experience and he had no reason to lie to me. Reading about RV tires and experience of others after the fact has made me a believer. There is indeed a lot of documented evidence tire do have a time limit. This tire had 37,000 miles looked very good and was well taken care of. I replaced the other five tires as soon as getting home. My opinion your milage my vary.

Edit: After replacing all the tires there was a noticeable difference in the ride. Not sure if this was due to old tires rubber hardening or not.

 

God write-up/summary, Gene. Thanks.
Marcus...