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Let's Talk Cyclecars

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Bigcheese327, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 26,249

    The37Kid
    Member

    Ok, looked a lot like it with some parts swapped around. Bob

    [​IMG]
     
    culpspecial, 1952B3b23 and Rolfzoller like this.
  2. Rolfzoller
    Joined: Apr 30, 2014
    Posts: 295

    Rolfzoller
    Member

    74421870-7D21-4D02-AFE1-784F970D9547.jpeg
    Hindenberg 2018
     
    motoklas likes this.
  3. rwrj
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 484

    rwrj
    Member
    from SW Ga

  4. fredvv44
    Joined: Dec 11, 2013
    Posts: 384

    fredvv44
    Member

    The new Morgan had the front shock mounted on the lower a-arm way inboard and had bad problems with bent a-arms. Learn from their experience. Machine looks very nice.
     
  5. Erik B
    Joined: Sep 4, 2006
    Posts: 1,966

    Erik B
    Member

    Morgans have lots of problems with poor engineering. The bump steer problem was so bad that 2 companies made replacement A-arms to fix it. Also, they use ball joints with no adjustability for alignment. And the bevel box and belt drive are noisy and have lots of issues. I could go on and on.

    Here is a better shot to see the body. If anyone wants more info they can PM me. OttO Cycles, named after Nicholas OttO and his invention.

    aaf57c07-4e5f-49a7-8b43-1b14118dc6b0.jpg ft trunk.jpg
     
  6. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

  7. Kume
    Joined: Jan 23, 2010
    Posts: 843

    Kume
    Member

    yep John Gerber copy but without the chev 4 engine
     
  8. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 3,775

    rooman
    Member

    I found an adapter to put a H-D engine on a VW transaxle on e-bay (I guess it was made for anyone who felt bad about running a VW trike) and modified it to mate with the Toyota bellhousing.
    Shop September 05 022.jpg

    Shop June 05 046.jpg

    Roo
     
  9. Erik B
    Joined: Sep 4, 2006
    Posts: 1,966

    Erik B
    Member

    I am making a steel weldment to mount to the back of the motor and clear the steering rack. It will have additional torque reaction bushings to insulate the motor. Then there is a aluminum casting that mounts to that and houses the compensator and bolts to the transmission. The splined shaft mounts in bearings to the trans input. Lots of things to consider.
     
    banjeaux bob likes this.
  10. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 394

    Desmodromic
    Member

    ErikB, Roo & anyone else with applicable knowledge:

    I've been rounding up parts for a couple of Harley powered projects --
    1) c1947, 3/4 midget, to use rear engine & transaxle. (Presently has first-year, 1938 500cc BSA GoldStar & transmission, that would be best used by someone in a BSA restoration, rather than in my fairly crude home-made racer.)

    2) c1948 full midget, front-engined, originally built with two knuckleheads in tandem, to make essentially a V4 (fore-and-aft "crank" centerline). Knew nothing about Harleys when I bought this, figured I'd pick up a couple of knuckleheads, found out they sell well into 5 figures, so gave up on that. I did buy a nice, rebuilt Shovel-Head, and am looking for a duplicate.

    My questions revolve around adapting Harleys to automobile trannies:

    I'd assume the Harley crank/bearings do not have the capability to absorb clutch throw out bearing thrust. The description of the adaptor for the Toyota mentions the addition of a bearing, which is presumably for this purpose. I'd love to see a sketch showing the conceptual arrangement of the coupling components. It seems to me that the flywheel must in effect be mounted on the transmission, with a slip joint between the the engine and flywheel. I have given some thought to an Alfa Romeo transaxle, which, although front engine/rear drive, had the flywheel mounted on the rear located transaxle. But, this would be a bulky overkill, and would deviate too much from "period correctness".

    Is the Harley-to-VW adapter commercially available? Website? Does it include provisions to absorb the throw out bearing thrust?

    Hadn't thought about it before one of you mentioned it; I intend to "soft-mount" the engine, but is vibration from Harley firing impulses apt to be a problem, such that an elastomeric drive coupling would be recommended?

    Maybe the expedient solution would be to forego the convenience of a clutch & transmission, and go with an in/out box and push starts!

    Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated!
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
  11. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Twin harleys? https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/the-hornet-special.705845/
     
  12. Erik B
    Joined: Sep 4, 2006
    Posts: 1,966

    Erik B
    Member

    Hi Desmo- Sorry I can't be of much help but be diligent on your Google searches. Someone has probably done it before.
     
  13. Desmodromic
    Joined: Sep 25, 2010
    Posts: 394

    Desmodromic
    Member

    I was wondering how you addressed the issue of isolating your engine's crank from the thrust from the throwout bearing. I've assumed you are using a standard shift transmission with clutch. I'd guess you'ld need to provide an added thrust bearing between the flywheel and clutch, and a splined slip joint between the crank and flywheel. Or maybe you're using a set-up like an Alfa Romeo Milano sedan, which has a front engine, and a rear mounted trans-axle, having the clutch and flywheel integral with the trans-axle. One could be made from a VW trans-axle, which would be more compact, with the gears located aft of the differential.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  14. fredvv44
    Joined: Dec 11, 2013
    Posts: 384

    fredvv44
    Member

    Here is what Morgan did and they still have problems. the Compensator is now failing. The layout is engine, Compensator, thrust/support bearing, flywheel, clutch, gearbox. Maybe another bearing next to the engine. They tore up gearboxes without the Compensator. The engine torque pulses are horrendous.
    engine layout.jpg
     
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  15. stude54ht
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 576

    stude54ht
    Member
    from Spokane WA

    What was in his future? sbd4.jpg
     
  16. Erik B
    Joined: Sep 4, 2006
    Posts: 1,966

    Erik B
    Member

    I have several parts to accomplish what isolation and integration with the trans and engine. I'm using a steel weldment to mount to the back of the motor and that connects to an aluminum casting that flares out to the transmission flange. Miata 5 speed trans being used. There is 2 splined shafts that fits the crank output that is supported by a bearing at the front and back of the casting. That isolates clutch input from the motor output. Cush drive is also in line and 4 motor mounts help isolate the motor and the trans has a rubber mount at the back. It's all custom made so there is no source for parts.
     
  17. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 793

    chrisp
    Member

  18. fredvv44
    Joined: Dec 11, 2013
    Posts: 384

    fredvv44
    Member

    Erik, what are you using for the cush drive?

     
  19. Erik B
    Joined: Sep 4, 2006
    Posts: 1,966

    Erik B
    Member

    Making my own.
     
  20. and (most likely) plastic surgery, but the spark in his eye says it's all worth it! :D
     
  21. tarcoleo
    Joined: Mar 28, 2013
    Posts: 34

    tarcoleo
    Member

  22. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

  23. fredvv44
    Joined: Dec 11, 2013
    Posts: 384

    fredvv44
    Member

    Great photo Bob!!
     
  24. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    i wish I could tell you that I took it!
     
  25. JackdaRabbit
    Joined: Jul 15, 2008
    Posts: 469

    JackdaRabbit
    Member
    from WNC

    Yeah Bob but think how old you'd be now.
     
  26. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 5,793

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Without a doubt.... but like Gandalf says....All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us. So, if I lived then I still would make sure I lived life to the fullest!
     
  27. SR100
    Joined: Nov 26, 2013
    Posts: 661

    SR100
    Member

    This looks a lot like a trike I came across recently:
    upload_2019-4-22_12-21-38.jpeg
    Despite the Morgan-like look, the Hudlass-Jap had a 600cc JAP single behind the driver. It was built around 1924-6 by a young man whose father had built horseless carriages. The engine and transmission sat in a cradle that pivoted with the rear wheel so that the chain tension remained constant. Front suspension was by quarter-elliptic springs. It was set up for front brakes, but they weren't installed. In 1929, he started another special, which he completed in 1931, a this time a four-wheeler:
    upload_2019-4-22_12-47-43.jpeg
    Its 1100cc JAP twin drove through a Riley gearbox. The body was leathercloth covered plywood. In 1939 he began to stretch it to a four-seater. It ended up with a Riley engine and a pre-selector gearbox. That version was found in the mid-nineties minus the Riley engine and running IFS, which might not be part of the conversion to four-seater.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  28. Kume
    Joined: Jan 23, 2010
    Posts: 843

    Kume
    Member

    Its 1100cc JAP twin drove through a Riley gearbox. The body was leathercloth covered plywood. In 1939 he began to stretch it to a four-seater. It ended up with a Riley engine and a pre-selector gearbox. This version was found in the mid-nineties minus the Riley engine and running IFS, which may or might not be part of the conversion to four-seater.[/QUOTE]

    Looks like quite a bit of a Riley 9 died to enable this build. It has quite nice proportions for a special.
     
  29. SR100
    Joined: Nov 26, 2013
    Posts: 661

    SR100
    Member

    Looks like quite a bit of a Riley 9 died to enable this build. It has quite nice proportions for a special.[/QUOTE]
    When it was found, they didn't mention Riley 9, but reading between the lines, the original gearbox was from a 9. The Riley engine was a 1500cc bored out to 1600, so he went looking for a beefier box. Oddly enough, when it was found, they speculated that a fair amount of the four-seater was Model-T based.
     
    Kume likes this.
  30. SR100
    Joined: Nov 26, 2013
    Posts: 661

    SR100
    Member

    Jappic.jpg
    Jappic @ this year's Retromobile. Is it @UKAde's or the New Zealand recreation? Apparently, the only distinguishing factor is that the New Zealand car runs a 500cc JAP KOC engine:
    JappicNZ.jpg
     

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