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Let's Talk Cyclecars

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Bigcheese327, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,227

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Zoran, thanks for this. It's much what I was thinking, except that we'd have several sprockets fixed to a tube around one of the axle shafts. The problem in a higher-performance application would be torque steer, i.e. the long axle shaft winds up under power and unwinds when power is released, resulting in more power first to one wheel and then to the other. It is why the short driveshaft on a transverse front-drive arrangement usually has a narrow waist somewhere along its length, to make it as springy in torsion as the long driveshaft. So one would have to incorporate some sort of torsional spring in the hub etc. to achieve that.

    But I'm investigating other differential options.

    Edit: as long as the diff is open, wind-up shouldn't be a problem, as it would be equalized in the differential's action. So, Stu's arrangement would work perfectly, with the necessary adjustments.

    Things might get a bit hairy with a limited-slip differential, though. The same applies to the principle of a Detroit Locker, for instance, which isn't really a differential at all but an automatically-unlocking spool. That could in principle be widened into a laterally- sliding splined axle with clutches at the wheels, but the haphazard locking and unlocking wouldn't suit this sort of car.

    The consensus in road-racing seems to be moving in the direction of, the grippier the tyres you have, the more sense a plain open diff makes.

    I think the old trials practice of separate left and right handbrakes acting on the respective rear wheels would rather suit the character of a GN/FN, despite being wholly redundant on the originals.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
  2. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 859

    chrisp
    Member

    Setup day at Retromobile
    Peugeot Bebe
    [​IMG]
    Bugatti and Talbot (too big for a cyclecar but too cool)
    [​IMG]
    Riley
    [​IMG]
    George Irat
    [​IMG]
    Renault (AX?)
    [​IMG]
    BNC
    [​IMG]
    A row of Bugs
    [​IMG]
    An other Bug
    [​IMG]
    Croizemarie
    [​IMG]
    and a Bugatti a way we rarely see them
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,227

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    Here's an arrangement of "wiggly monkeys" that would work with three dog hubs and six speeds:
    [​IMG]
     
  4. motoklas
    Joined: Dec 17, 2010
    Posts: 640

    motoklas
    Member
    from Bern, CH

    -------------------------------------------
    Hello Ned,
    I am sure that you will find solutions, design them and make them in the best way that you need and want, for your “special”, and all of us can enjoy in following development of your project, discussing some issues and giving “advices”... Never too old to learn something new – even not of any use in practical way? (thinking on myself at the first place)
    --- ---
    I was thinking about turning things on head (Columbus’s egg):

    • replica of earlier GN, in mater of transmission: entire sprockets/chains/sprockets complete should be fixed to chassis (no any torsional or other unwanted forces on system);
    • from secondary axle with sprockets, instead of belts, use a pair of chains to each of the rear wheels (a`la motorcycle system), or just one chain to differential on the rear axle;

    Chain-type differential could be built or bought... I am not sure for weight, power and way of use of your special, but suppose that belts shouldn't be adequate? Otherwise, they would obtain simple differential function...

    It seems to me that Detroit Locker simply use two free-wheel bearings (one for each side), or sprang-clutches? If it is so, I am afraid that there shouldn't be real differential action:

    • power/torque would be equal to both of wheels just at straights;
    • at curves and corners – only outside wheel should have free-wheeling without power/torque at all, turning faster than half-shafts; - inside wheel should have all the power/torque!
    Not the best solution?
    For sure that two hand-brakes should be helpful if need to have limited differential action (avoid free-wheeling of one wheel over mud and dust)
    For me just fitness for old brain, during short winter days and long nights, waiting to finish my HPV-quadricycle when weather permitt that.

    Ciao,
    Zoran
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 3, 2015
    Ned Ludd likes this.
  5. motoklas
    Joined: Dec 17, 2010
    Posts: 640

    motoklas
    Member
    from Bern, CH

    ....deleted... (double message)
     
  6. LeeStohr
    Joined: Oct 21, 2009
    Posts: 108

    LeeStohr
    Member
    from Virginia

    Thank you for the Retromobile photos! Keep them coming if you can, really appreciate it. Wish I was there.
     
  7. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 859

    chrisp
    Member

    I'll try but I'm there for work so I won't have much time to roam the aisles once it opens to the public.
     
  8. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,227

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    I was thinking, I'd need a bevel box anyway, and an IRS third member should be the most convenient. That shouldn't have a differential in it, though, so I could replace that with a spool and use the diff on the axle.

    I'm wondering about a nice light bevel box, though, as being ahead of the gearbox it'd see at most less than a third of the torque it'd see in a conventional arrangement.
     
  9. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member


    I used the tailrotor gearbox from a Sikorsky heilo in my ersatz Morgan

    Hoib
     
    brayton engine guy likes this.
  10. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    Hit send too soon- Frank Piasecki used the lower end of an outboard motor for the tailrotor in his first ship--kind it hard to lash it down though as there was no flat surface for mounting, I think that they welded a plate, with gussets to the outer casting, which should have played hell with the gear alignment--but hey--it flew

    Was a long time ago when we cosmetically restored The PV2 at Piasecki Aircraft, that I had the opportunity to sniff around it.

    H
     
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  11. motoklas
    Joined: Dec 17, 2010
    Posts: 640

    motoklas
    Member
    from Bern, CH

    Chris,
    It is nice to have such job where you enjoy, or to have a joy for which you are paid?
    Wonderful photos of old automobiles from various categories! Peugeot Bebe and cute Croizemarie are as older and a little more serious brothers of cycle-cars?

    Ciao,
    Zoran
     
  12. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,227

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    What sort of ratios do those have?
     
  13. ebtm3
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 837

    ebtm3
    Member

    Nedd.

    Been a long time, but as I recall the Sikorsky was around 2½-1 with a hunting tooth--so ratio wasn't exact. The outboard I have no idea--not into boats, Not a heck of a lot of help I know. Never even knew what model Sikorsky the thing was out of., as it was a government surplus rebuild. $35. I bought 2 for insurance, but never had a speck of trouble, Last I heard the trike was still running-now on its fifth owner
     
    Ned Ludd likes this.
  14. Kume
    Joined: Jan 23, 2010
    Posts: 890

    Kume
    Member

    has anyone seen results of the Baillon collection auction yet . Some of the predicted prices in the catalogue seemed quite cheep! Wish I was there with a wallet full of euros!
     
  15. SR100
    Joined: Nov 26, 2013
    Posts: 932

    SR100
    Member

    About 20% of the estimates appear spot-on, many of the rest are insanely low. More entice-to-bid than estimate of selling price. An Amilcar CGSS biplace sport, circa 1927 (which, admittedly needs everything) for only 3000 - 5000 €? Some of the estimates are too low. I'd hate to see some of the sedans cut up for, as Dawie put it, "more obvious cars". There are not many high, or should I say generous, estimates. When I looked a couple of minutes ago, they had not posted results.
     
  16. belgiumcustomshop
    Joined: Oct 22, 2012
    Posts: 195

    belgiumcustomshop
    Member
    from belgium

    I went to the baillon auction yesterday! Mainly for the amilcar but it was way out of my league! People went crazy yesterday!
    46000€ +20%tax for the amilcar

    50000+tax for the sandford
     
  17. belgiumcustomshop
    Joined: Oct 22, 2012
    Posts: 195

    belgiumcustomshop
    Member
    from belgium

  18. belgiumcustomshop
    Joined: Oct 22, 2012
    Posts: 195

    belgiumcustomshop
    Member
    from belgium

    44000 for a voisin chassis with engine

    480000 for the hispano suiza

    105000 for a delage d8

    250000 for the bugatti

    625000 for the talbot lago t26

    1 490 000 for the talbot lago t26 grand sport

    25000 for the packard eight

    1 700 000 for the maserati

    And 14 200 000 for the ferrari 250
     
  19. belgiumcustomshop
    Joined: Oct 22, 2012
    Posts: 195

    belgiumcustomshop
    Member
    from belgium

    All without tax! I was happy to witness it but too bad the most cars went for 3/4 times the estimated price! It certainly filled the room!
    And about the cars: they were nicely displayed and a once in a lifetime opportunity to see so many rare barn finds in one place!
     
  20. belgiumcustomshop
    Joined: Oct 22, 2012
    Posts: 195

    belgiumcustomshop
    Member
    from belgium

  21. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 28,063

    The37Kid
    Member

    Based on the pre auction photos this was my pick of the collection, that roof damage was never shown in the early shots. What was the sale price on it? Bob [​IMG]
     
  22. belgiumcustomshop
    Joined: Oct 22, 2012
    Posts: 195

    belgiumcustomshop
    Member
    from belgium

    1 490 000€+20% tax
    Nice and rare car with allot of rust and damage ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1423299678.650297.jpg
     
  23. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 859

    chrisp
    Member

    Total sale of the collection reached 25.5 M
    I didn't get a chance to visit anything from the show, too busy in our booth, we even got some interesting offers for the cars we had on display to showcase our restorations capabilities.
     
  24. fredvv44
    Joined: Dec 11, 2013
    Posts: 445

    fredvv44
    Member

    People go nuts at auctions but there aren't any more of these cars left if you want a project. That Talbot will be worth twice that after restoration.
     
  25. fnqvmuch
    Joined: Nov 14, 2008
    Posts: 275

    fnqvmuch
    Member

    but did one get away? in the barn but not in the sale, i mean. 8fc90c00-7cb5-11e4-bb26-65fed348e967_Abri-1-avec-Facel-Vega-Excellence-et-Talbot.jpg
     
  26. Kume
    Joined: Jan 23, 2010
    Posts: 890

    Kume
    Member

    There did seem to be a few that were visible on the original barn photos and not in the auction catalogue.
     
  27. belgiumcustomshop
    Joined: Oct 22, 2012
    Posts: 195

    belgiumcustomshop
    Member
    from belgium

    Maybe the family decided to
     
  28. belgiumcustomshop
    Joined: Oct 22, 2012
    Posts: 195

    belgiumcustomshop
    Member
    from belgium

  29. belgiumcustomshop
    Joined: Oct 22, 2012
    Posts: 195

    belgiumcustomshop
    Member
    from belgium

  30. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 859

    chrisp
    Member

    Some didn't make it to the auction, one can imagine also that there have been negotiations on the seller fee, did they put Artcurial and Bonham in competition? Maybe a couple cars instead of cash?
     

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