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Hot Rods Let's talk Cadillac 331's, 365 and 390's

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Roothawg, Apr 7, 2016.

  1. WTF really
    Joined: Jul 9, 2017
    Posts: 1,261

    WTF really
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    Got the covers cleaned up and put on. 20200211_104857.jpg
     
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  2. lumpy 63
    Joined: Aug 2, 2010
    Posts: 1,460

    lumpy 63
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  3. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 2,701

    31hotrodguy
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    They look great except for your intake set up is all wrong........you should give it to me instead!


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  4. WTF really
    Joined: Jul 9, 2017
    Posts: 1,261

    WTF really
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    Shoot even the scrap yard wouldn't take it.
     
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  5. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 2,701

    31hotrodguy
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  6. WTF really
    Joined: Jul 9, 2017
    Posts: 1,261

    WTF really
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    I believe I'm going to put it in my 30 roadster after I'm done with my truck unless something else shows up before then. You know how that goes. Lol
     
  7. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 2,701

    31hotrodguy
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    WTF really and loudbang like this.
  8. I've posted this photo of my motor mocked up before, but having done a bit more research I have a question. My motor is a '54 331ci. I'm slowly gathering parts to build the motor which aside from what's in the photos include vertex mag, and early 390 crank and heads. I have been reading in an old Allard article that the rocker shafts are prone to fracturing at high rpm and that a known swap was for larger diameter Chrysler shafts. I was wondering if anyone has either experienced Caddy shafts failing or know any more about the swap for a more robust shaft? I'm about to invest in a set of roller rockers so want to make sure I make the right choice and dial out any potential problems from the beginning.
    Any advice on this would be great, thanks.


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    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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  9. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 22,049

    Roothawg
    Member

    A Caddy is a low RPM torque monster. The guys writing this article were racing sports cars on a circuit. Buy new shafts, have Harland Sharp make you a set of roller rockers and drive it. No worries.
     
  10. Would help if I added the picture!
    [​IMG]


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  11. 42merc
    Joined: Dec 19, 2010
    Posts: 790

    42merc
    Member

    The Allards were hard core race cars used in an endurance situation, lots of stress.
    I think that most of the Caddy talk on this site will be used for shit talking rather than REAL high performance applications. I would not worry.
     
  12. I figured it might not be a real issue as I'm never intending on any long endurance type racing. However the motor is being built to run at flat out events, such as Pendine sands here in the U.K. As such the motor is being built with this in mind, so higher than stock compression and power coming in higher up the rev range. From what I remember the Allard article said that Caddy motors suffered with harmonic problems which they attributed a lot of the failures to. Saying that I've only ever heard/ read everywhere else that these motors were strong and well engineered.


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  13. 42merc
    Joined: Dec 19, 2010
    Posts: 790

    42merc
    Member

    It's to bad we can't access OHIO GEORGE Montgomery's files on how to build a real Cadillac motor.
     
  14. I have read an interview with Ohio George, (possibly on here) that asks why he pulled the Caddy in favour of the small block and he says it was only a rule change that prompted the swap nothing else. The speed parts I have came from a well known 414ci A/Gas Willys that was raced very successfully in the early 60s. Built right these motors were real contenders!


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  15. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 22,049

    Roothawg
    Member

    They tend to respond to superchargers. The bottom end is very similar to sbc. I am not sure where all of the speed parts vaporized to. I think @lumpy 63 is buying them all up.
     
  16. Yeah, I know they were not as popular choice as the Olds, I guess mostly down to comparative availability, but you'd figure there'd be more speed parts than there are! I'm hoping that I can get the injection running good on my motor...I sold on my supercharger last year that was destined for this motor to help fund the Hilborn setup....something about those old mechanical injection motors I love!


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  17. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 2,701

    31hotrodguy
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    I got my 365 dropped off in the drive way today. I came all the way from Alabama. I’m excited to mess with it a bit and see what kind of shape it is in. Despite the “blue paint restoration” I’m surprised it is a clean as it is. IMG_8093.JPG
    IMG_8094.JPG
    IMG_8092.JPG


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  18. Barrelnose pickup
    Joined: Aug 20, 2008
    Posts: 1,420

    Barrelnose pickup
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    A question for the wiser, I am in the process of firing up a rebuilt 365 and am not planning on running the bypass oil filter while on the engine stand.
    Should I run a bypass line(with the restrictor in it) to the timing chain area or just block those ports? Asking this as 1, it appears to lube the timing chain on the way back to the pan, 2, I’ve read that guys used to remove the filter and just do more frequent oil changes but replacing the line hasn’t been mentioned.
    Thanks for your thoughts
     
  19. Barrelnose pickup
    Joined: Aug 20, 2008
    Posts: 1,420

    Barrelnose pickup
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    Hello, anyone got anything to offer?
     
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  20. 42merc
    Joined: Dec 19, 2010
    Posts: 790

    42merc
    Member

    My thinking is there is enough splash lubrication that the return oil line can be plugged.
    After all, the full flow '60-'62 doesn't have that provision. Look at any SBC.
    The spot for the drain on the early motors was a matter of convenience.
     
  21. 42merc
    Joined: Dec 19, 2010
    Posts: 790

    42merc
    Member

    Today, looking at a '57 Cadillac motor on my garage floor, there is no way the oil filter drain-back tube lubricates the timing chain.
    The location is 3" to the left of the timing cover and 1" further back.
    After the motor is in the vehicle, running with or without a filter is your choice.
    Even tho the filter is a bypass type, I feel there is a benefit in using it.
     
  22. Automotive Stud
    Joined: Sep 26, 2004
    Posts: 4,178

    Automotive Stud
    Member

    On my 1955 motor the oil filter return goes to the fuel pump stand to drain back. I think a little filtering is better than none but I see no harm in plugging it either.

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  23. Barrelnose pickup
    Joined: Aug 20, 2008
    Posts: 1,420

    Barrelnose pickup
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    EF380CB5-7B84-4830-A154-4FEEB545166E.jpeg
    I just checked out an early 390 block I have on an engine stand and the outlet of the oil passage is a slotted hole due to it being on the inside of the timing case which lines up with the cam chain. The inlet on the front of the block is approximately in the same place as the 57 I am wondering about. The gallery is directly in line with the timing chain.
    Not saying it is where the chain gets it lube from, just appears to lube it also.
    Thanks for the replies, I’m going to run the filter now either way.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  24. Barrelnose pickup
    Joined: Aug 20, 2008
    Posts: 1,420

    Barrelnose pickup
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    On another line, using this extra shed time I knocked up this adapter to fit a Spaulding flamethrower into the Cad motor, originally fits a Chev so another part of the puzzle sorted. 5837C3AE-7BF5-41DE-ABF3-08DAF95798CA.jpeg 74DE75CF-E7F2-46B5-A7B7-2BDFDFA94B77.jpeg
     
  25. 42merc
    Joined: Dec 19, 2010
    Posts: 790

    42merc
    Member

    Back to the original question.
    The oil filter return line on my 365 cu. in. '57 Cad motor does not lube the timing chain.
     
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  26. Barrelnose pickup
    Joined: Aug 20, 2008
    Posts: 1,420

    Barrelnose pickup
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    Great, thanks for input 42merc, as I said I’ll run the filter either way.
     
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  27. boo
    Joined: Jul 6, 2005
    Posts: 566

    boo
    Member
    from stuart,fl.

    my 3x2 manifold is a WIEAND, drilled for 3 bolt carbs. w/heat riser.going to run 3 speedway 97's on my 1955, 331 eng w/progressive link in my 34 rdst.????
     
  28. hotrod_grmi
    Joined: Feb 3, 2008
    Posts: 158

    hotrod_grmi
    Member

    D5DE0728-D2BE-4589-826E-94D2143AADB6.png 9919AB97-87E0-449F-ACDB-FF5FB19FE712.jpeg 1EC40E01-82F8-4316-982C-CAB1DF722B29.jpeg Asking what’s normal for oil pressure on a ’61 390. Since built, oil pressure warm is never over 25 psi at any rpm and cold on start up 15 psi at 1000rpm. Use 20-50 Brad Penn with WIX filter

    With 8200 miles on it now running in my deuce and don’t baby it, engine super runs strong, runs quite except for the sold lifter clatter. Should note this race inspired 390 +.060 engine dyno’d at 436hp @5200 rpm and 449ft/# torque @ 3900rpm. The oil pump was rebuilt with new components from Egge, stock 5 qt oil pan and pickup.
    Clearances: Mains 0.0024. Rods. 0.0021, Rod side clear .011-012. Crank end play .004.

    I am curious to know if by removing the oil filter adapter then tapping the block to accept remote oil lines to a Hildebrandt remote filter mounted on the firewall would have anything to do with the low pressure and was wondering if maybe a restrictor would help. Does anyone know if a restrictor should be used or not, then any others possible reasons why the 25 psi pressure. Have been told by others these engines normally carry 30 to 35 psi.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  29. Manual indicates 15 psi at idle, 30-35 at 30mph, relief valve opens at 35 psi. I have same motor with stock filter adapter, my cheapo oil pressure gauge never went above 25 either. Tried a different gauge got a higher reading, but not quite 35. I decided that the gauges were inaccurate, and both of their highest readings in reality were about 35 psi. Try another gauge?


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  30. Barrelnose pickup
    Joined: Aug 20, 2008
    Posts: 1,420

    Barrelnose pickup
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    Normally there is a restrictor on the inlet side of the bypass filter,it’s incorporated into the brass 90 degree fitting usually. Have a look at your old filter and fittings if you have them.
    Sorry, disregard this as I reread your post and it’s the later motor.
     

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