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Let's talk about "Saginaw 4 speed"

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Coke-bottle, Apr 16, 2010.

  1. Shaggy
    Joined: Mar 6, 2003
    Posts: 5,208

    Shaggy
    Member
    from Sultan, WA

    Now when did saginaws come out?? And i also had some articals on the OD conversion, BUt i lost them, so how do i ID the right saginaw OD, or will any GM car OD be the right trans??
     
  2. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 3,926

    Truckedup
    Member

    They most certaintly do spin on the mainshaft during gear reduction.That's what Muncie 4 speed first gear rides on a sleeve.These gears can gall up the shafts without the proper lube.
     
  3. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,591

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    The Saginaw transmission design we're talking about here debuted in 1966. Saginaw overdrive three speeds were available from 1966-71, and yes, any one of them will work for the four speed conversion.
     
  4. granny
    Joined: Apr 1, 2009
    Posts: 56

    granny
    Member
    from WA state

    When the gears are actually turning on the mainshaft, they are not transferring the power. When the power is going thru an individual forward gear, that gear is coupled to the mainshaft, not spinning on it.

    In my experience, using Redline MTL does not cause a problem between the gear and mainshaft. The thinner oil is getting in there. No sign of galling. Thinner oil might even get in there better than a thicker lube.
     
  5. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 3,926

    Truckedup
    Member

    Yes,I was mixing words,you said it better,mainshaft gear transmitting power doesn't spin on the shaft.
     
  6. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,569

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Shaggy, I bought my Saginaw 3 ring 4-speed and the Saginaw 3-speed with overdrive, from a fella in SULTAN. He had two El Caminos, 64-65, one red, one black. I thought it might be you. You know this guy? He lives right on Hwy 2, just East of the old logging equipment store. Saginaws came out in 1966, both the 3 and 4-speeds, replacing the old 3-speed non-syncro first gear Muncies (that for some reason, people refer to as a Saginaw). Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
  7. Shaggy
    Joined: Mar 6, 2003
    Posts: 5,208

    Shaggy
    Member
    from Sultan, WA

    56sedandelivery, Not me, i was wondering who that was on craigslist, i havent ran into that guy in years, and i even forget his name, i'm in town myself, he used to drive the red one around a lot, but i figured he moved
     
  8. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,569

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It just seemed odd, to have TWO people in a town the size of Sultan that each have 2 64-65 El Caminos; such as your bio mentions. Stranger things have happened. Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
  9. Shaggy
    Joined: Mar 6, 2003
    Posts: 5,208

    Shaggy
    Member
    from Sultan, WA

    My neighbor has a '64 too, and a guy a block away had a 65 for a while
     
  10. Flat Ernie
    Joined: Jun 5, 2002
    Posts: 8,406

    Flat Ernie
    Tech Editor

    Thanks for confirming my suspicions, guys. Good bit of info - the 3sp OD to 4spd.
     
  11. Coke-bottle
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 273

    Coke-bottle
    Member

    I don't fint site for "how to rebuild a saginaw 4 speed" anybody with experience could post many pic and rebuild one? :)
    Any link for nice rebuild kit?
     
  12. jrlemke
    Joined: Dec 20, 2009
    Posts: 83

    jrlemke
    Member

    If you're gonna do a 4 spd O.D., you gotta use the 4 spd case. Drill (2) 5/8" holes in the rear using the O.D. gasket as a guide. I left out the rod that pushes the O.D. out of engagement when shifting into reverse (just remember to disengage the O.D. before backing up!). The Studebaker Drivers Club web site has a copy of the old "HOT ROD" mag article on how to do it. It's in the tech pages index. I've had the one in my 52 Chev for 20+ years and it works great. The shifter was the biggest hassle, I used a 3 spd mounting brecket and made a block to duplicate the casting on the 4 spd tailshaft and bolted it to the bracket. You also need a relay for the O.D. sol. The Stude tech pages also show you how to make one using modern parts
     
  13. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,569

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I looked on the Studebaker Drivers Club site, and could not find the old HOT ROD article. I have a Sag 4-speed AND a Sag 3-speed with overdrive I just picked up, FORTY DOLLARS for both. I have the article from the Chevy truck site, but would like another perspective. Can you direct me? Thanks, Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
  14. jrlemke
    Joined: Dec 20, 2009
    Posts: 83

    jrlemke
    Member

    I looked at the Stude article, it is the one from the Chev truck site. I built mine using the Hot Rod article when it first came out, around the mid 70's I think. I should add, I also had to make my own rev. shift rod, the others are nearly straight.
     
  15. Unsafe6
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 129

    Unsafe6
    Member

    Best damed disposable 4spd ever made. Just keep a spare and no hi rev clutch drops. I get 4 or 5 years on one before It blows up. Nice low 1st for higher ratios, just be carefull in reverse.
     
  16. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,569

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER


    Oakie, doakie, mighty fine. Thanks, I have that article printed; just thought IF there was another........... Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
  17. Shaggy
    Joined: Mar 6, 2003
    Posts: 5,208

    Shaggy
    Member
    from Sultan, WA

    Search on here the articals have been posted a few times in the past
     
  18. granny
    Joined: Apr 1, 2009
    Posts: 56

    granny
    Member
    from WA state

    I've got tons of hi rpm drag radial clutch drops on mine, but my main case started out as a truck version that originally had 5 bolts holding it to the bellhousing, the extra bolt being on the top/center. Cut all that off and spent some quality time w/ a grinder lightening it up, but in the end it looks like a car case, but maybe it's stronger.

    FYI, this truck Saginaw came w/ a 3.50 1st gear and a 1" x 14 spline input shaft, but 2nd and 3rd ratios were different than those published for a 3.50 box. I replaced the guts w/ a complete 3.50 set from a car as they use different tooth counts on the input shaft, even though both have the same 3.50 1st gear ratio. I wanted the car's 10 spline input shaft to get more choices for the clutch disc.
     
  19. Coke-bottle
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 273

    Coke-bottle
    Member

    NObuddy have a reply for me?

    Luca
     
  20. granny
    Joined: Apr 1, 2009
    Posts: 56

    granny
    Member
    from WA state

    Mid '70s big Chilton manuals had good pictures and proceedures, probably much of it taken from factory manuals. Here in the states, you can find that sort of thing at a swap meet or library.
     
  21. metalhotrodgirl
    Joined: Sep 10, 2003
    Posts: 814

    metalhotrodgirl
    Member

    i had a sag 4 speed behind my 350 in the nova for 5 years no problems and that was 5 years of a daily driver, 2years of which i did burnouts all the time with no problem,power shifted like a dream, the car had the trans in there when i got it so who knows how long it was in there . i recently took it out only b/c there was a humming and im sure it was just the output bearing, but since it was a daily i needed the put something in there quick, now i have another sag "4 speed" but im sure its a 3 with a over drive b/c 1st is down shifts fine but its a little weird tryin to power shift with it set up that way

    as long as your not putting more then 400 hp infront of it you'll be fine
     
  22. jrlemke
    Joined: Dec 20, 2009
    Posts: 83

    jrlemke
    Member

    Another note on the O.D. If you're gonna do something silly like dump the clutch, make sure the O.D. is locked out! A word to the wise!
     
  23. Nads
    Joined: Mar 5, 2001
    Posts: 11,631

    Nads
    Member
    from Hypocrisy

    I had a Mucie M-22 rockcrusher in my 59 El Camino with a not too healthy 348 that I used to abuse the fuck out of in the early 90s, it blew up but I couldn't affored to get it rebuilt, I never picked it from the shop. I replaced it with a used three speed Saginaw that saw a couple years more of serious abuse, including a drive to San Antonio and back from Florida to clear my head, it never let me down.
    I've had a Saginaw 4 speed in my 54 Chevy for at least 13 years, it's been abused like crazy but it's behind a 235 with twin carbs, Fentons and a hopped up cam.
     
  24. Coke-bottle
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 273

    Coke-bottle
    Member

    Thanks, but any help for USA made rebuild kit? Ive found lot of chinese shit right now..
     

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