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Let's see some sheet metal shaping

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by jhnarial, Sep 16, 2008.

  1. Randy Ferguson
    Joined: Dec 15, 2007
    Posts: 60

    Randy Ferguson
    Member

    What you're referring to as "aluminum killed" is actually drawing quality steel.

    The drawing quality steels are more refined, so to speak. They have a lower carbon content and a more uniform grain structure than the commercial quality steels. Both are aluminum killed though, as it's part of the process.

    Most of us who shape sheet metal professionally don't use the drawing quality steels, as there is no real advantage to it for how we shape. I've tried both types in a side by side test and could not see a difference. Progressive sheet metal shaping, done by hammers, beater bags, e-wheels, power hammers, planishing hammers, etc. is only moving a small amount of metal at a time, so it becomes a non issue.

    This topic almost always seems to come up when sheet metal shaping in discussed. Go back in time a few hundred years, what kind of steel did they use????? some of those old fella's building suits of armor sure didn't have the luxury of ordering some deep drawing quality aluminum killed steel. He had to start with a big chunk of ore and make his own sheet. We have it far too easy!!!

    Now, if you were to make dies and use something like this, you would want to go ahead a get the proper sheet metal for this type of operation, which would definitely be drawing quality steel. The drawing quality steel is designed for the stamping industry and should be used when stamping.

    [​IMG]



     
  2. Thanks Randy! That is awsome information!!!
     
  3. beaulieu
    Joined: Mar 24, 2007
    Posts: 364

    beaulieu
    Member
    from So Cal

    there were some Cobra go-kart bodies around out here at the swap meet,
    maybe thats what he used for a pattern,

    Beaulieu
     
  4. heinekendesign
    Joined: Dec 27, 2008
    Posts: 16

    heinekendesign
    Member


    I agree.
     
  5. jhnarial
    Joined: Mar 18, 2007
    Posts: 410

    jhnarial
    Member
    from MISSOURI

    Randy

    I wasn't getting the whole AK cold roll thing.Thanks for the explanation.
     
  6. BAILEIGH INC
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,618

    BAILEIGH INC
    Alliance Vendor

    Amazing!
     
  7. tdoty
    Joined: Jun 21, 2006
    Posts: 821

    tdoty
    Member

    I had a hand in some of the rough shaping on Randy's Willys nose...but the finish work is definitely all him!

    I worked on one of the fenders.......well, several of us beat the crap out of the sheetmetal it's made from. Once we started getting close to the pattern, Randy noticed we were making the wrong side :eek:

    Going along with what Mr. Arial said about the fit of the flex pattern, Randy took the fender and a BFH and turned it inside out :eek::eek::eek: We had several hours in beating this thing into submission! Quite a sight to watch someone beat on it the other way! About 45 minutes later, we had it back where we started. Sure was a hell of a lot quicker than starting over!

    I also started on the part of the hood circled in the pic:
    mypart.jpg

    Didn't get to finish it though.....had to head home to go to work the next day :mad:

    Randy has taught so much to so many! If he ever mentions a get together at his place........join the caravan and check it out! Randy's get togethers tend to be hands on events though, be ready to work...and if he asks if you're working on something, hide! That usually means something heavy needs to be moved! :rolleyes:

    But don't look for any fancy tools in Randy's shop - there's a stump, a beater bag, a couple of e-wheels and an assortment of hammers and dollies. That really is about it, it's all hand work!

    Johnny's progress has been inspirational! Hopefully I'll get to do some actual metalshaping in the garage over the next two weeks......instead of talking about it (keyboard metalshaping, as Johnny calls it). 'Sposed to be 48 degrees for the next 2 days.........but I need to sleep now or my results would be pure crap!

    Tim D.
     
  8. Randy Ferguson
    Joined: Dec 15, 2007
    Posts: 60

    Randy Ferguson
    Member

    Tim,

    You ain't doing anything! Come over here, I've got a job for ya!!

    You aren't going to believe it, but all you guys needling me about not having any tools finally got to me, so I stole (well, got dirt cheap)this new tool to help speed up the process.

    [​IMG]


    It's got some some electronics "stuff" I'd like you to look at. Rapid approach limit switches and whatnot that I'm not so sure I need/want. May be good stuff once I learn how to operate it, but for now, I'd like it to just go up and down at a constant speed (preferably slow!!)

    Give me a call or send an e-mail.

    618-553-9106
    fergusoncoachbuilding@wildblue.net

    P.S. Thanks for the added info and the compliments.
     
  9. tdoty
    Joined: Jun 21, 2006
    Posts: 821

    tdoty
    Member

    Randy, I'll see what I can do. I'm off work until the 8th...but Christmas left me kinda tapped out. Looks like a fun project!

    Tim D.
     
  10. jhnarial
    Joined: Mar 18, 2007
    Posts: 410

    jhnarial
    Member
    from MISSOURI

    Tim I know all to well about shaping a piece inside out at Randy's.I did the same thing.


    Randy when you posted the picture of the press earlier,I was wondering if that was your new press.Bill told me you got one.When I seen the picture,I thought that can't be it that thing is huge.Congratulation.


    So what panels are you going to use it for.Will it do the inner structure of the trunk?
     
  11. dechrome
    Joined: Dec 23, 2004
    Posts: 303

    dechrome
    Member

    I thought I would chime in on this topic and show a project that may be of interest to HAMBers. The top for the 39 ford was made over a wireform and finished. After some time some cracks appeared. After attending a metalmeet ( Metalmeet.com ) I thought I would make an aluminum skin and remove the fiberglass.
    With the help of many tallented folks at Metalmeet, I made a flexible shape pattern and started to shape the 10 panels. The smaller panels were made and some shape was rolled into the 4x4 top panel. Rather than take a chance of ruining the big panel, I worked with Randy Ferguson on his big wheel. Thanks Randy.
    Fiberglass was removed and the parts were welded filed and finished.
    The before and after pictures look the same but it weighs about 59 lbs. less.
     

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  12. jhnarial
    Joined: Mar 18, 2007
    Posts: 410

    jhnarial
    Member
    from MISSOURI

    I love that.

    Is that you Paul?
     
  13. Randy Ferguson
    Joined: Dec 15, 2007
    Posts: 60

    Randy Ferguson
    Member

    Not a problem, Tim. I'm not in a huge hurry. It's 3 phase so I have to come up with a phase converter before we can get it under power anyway. That's not happening before the 8th, so sometime later in January would work fine. BTW, I don't expect any freebies.


    Johnny, It's not huge, as far as presses go, but it is approx. 48"x30" between posts. Not large enough physically nor tonnage wise to do the deck lid inner structures in one piece, but I hop to be able to do them in as few as three pieces. This should cut down on a lot of hand work, especially on panels that have a lot of detail. Now I just have to start making dies!!
     
  14. chopd top
    Joined: Jun 25, 2008
    Posts: 472

    chopd top
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Florida
    1. HAMB Relays

    x2 !
     
  15. 26trackt
    Joined: Oct 20, 2008
    Posts: 50

    26trackt
    Member

    Hey!

    What th....

    Somebody get this thread to rolling again. I know the holidays probably stalled the real contributers.

    I'd post something cool here but I'm currently just a wanna be. I frankly don't even understand most of what I'm reading. It's still pretty darn cool stuff. Come on. Lets see the goods.
     
  16. BAILEIGH INC
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,618

    BAILEIGH INC
    Alliance Vendor


    Get it rollin!
     
  17. Randy Ferguson
    Joined: Dec 15, 2007
    Posts: 60

    Randy Ferguson
    Member

    Go for it Shane. You got those tools, show us what you can do with them.
     
  18. well it not sheetmetal shaping, but a little beadroller work.

    louver hoods 006 (2).jpg

    louver hoods 002.jpg

    johnny
     
  19. kenb
    Joined: Sep 19, 2008
    Posts: 89

    kenb
    Member Emeritus

    Probably a little bit OT for the HAMB, but here's a few pictures to help kick start this thread again. This is a 4' long aluminum 1/20 scale model of an 80' ELCO PT-Boat from WW2 that I've recently resumed working on, and will be an operational R/C model when its finished.

    Ken
     

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  20. BAILEIGH INC
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,618

    BAILEIGH INC
    Alliance Vendor


    Hey Ken,

    Good to see some guys from Metal Meet on the HAMB.
     
  21. Jalopy-Phil
    Joined: Nov 15, 2005
    Posts: 53

    Jalopy-Phil
    Member

  22. jhnarial
    Joined: Mar 18, 2007
    Posts: 410

    jhnarial
    Member
    from MISSOURI

    Thanks Johnny and Ken.

    Next time we meet up(probably in April if you are having a meet this year)your going to have to show me how to do that!That is just awesome!


    Ken I missed that you were going to make a remote control out of it.That's going to be sick.
     
  23. rokcrln
    Joined: Jan 22, 2009
    Posts: 175

    rokcrln
    Member

    Hi all I am new to the site but have been lurking for a short time now. This is a great thread and I look forward to more trolling of the site.
    I have just been getting into metal shaping in the last few years and just a few months back I took my first classes from Lazze and Ron Covell (both are close to were I live) and here was my results from the 3 day Lazze class. It is now hanging on the wall in my shop waiting until I buy the set of tools so I can finish up the other side:D

    Kevin
    LFD Inc.
    http://www.lewisfabricationdesign.com/
     

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  24. Bash'n'Weld
    Joined: Jan 19, 2008
    Posts: 361

    Bash'n'Weld
    Member

    Hey man, that's a very decent approach to metal shaping and excellent work for 3 lessons. I hope we are going to see more work from you in the future. Cheers.
     
  25. BAILEIGH INC
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,618

    BAILEIGH INC
    Alliance Vendor

    I have heard good things about the Lazze classes. I know Ron Covell personally, he thought me to use an English Wheel. Good guy.
     
  26. rokcrln
    Joined: Jan 22, 2009
    Posts: 175

    rokcrln
    Member

    Yes the Lazze class was allot of fun and allot of knowledge as well and I look forward to the step 2 class this year.
    I have only been able to take 1 of Ron's classes so far but he has a new one coming up in Aug. at my friend Zane's shop in Santa Rosa I will be attending. It is an advanced metal shaping class. I just picked up Ron's new Video on scratch building a fender using a buck and the opposite side fender and it was well worth the money. I feel I got more out of the video just on building an accurate Buck then all the shaping was a bonus!
    I look forward to selling off some of my vehicles and going head on with allot more metal shaping and restoring.

    Kevin
    LFD Inc.
     
  27. PoPo
    Joined: Jan 3, 2008
    Posts: 1,100

    PoPo
    Member

    Shane I need to visit you up there in WI and have you teach me something about the Wheel!! Then maybe I can start playing around with metal a little.
     
  28. jhnarial
    Joined: Mar 18, 2007
    Posts: 410

    jhnarial
    Member
    from MISSOURI

    I made a little progress on my son's go-cart.

    Picture 168.jpg

    Picture 174.jpg

    Picture 175.jpg

    Picture 171.jpg

    Picture 188.jpg

    Picture 198.jpg

    Picture 201.jpg

    Picture 206.jpg

    go cart 2 002.jpg

    go cart 2 022.jpg
     
  29. thats looking sweet johnny


    johnny
     
  30. BAILEIGH INC
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,618

    BAILEIGH INC
    Alliance Vendor

    x2 on that
     

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