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Technical Let's See Some Floor Tinning and Opinions

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Clik, Jan 15, 2017.

  1. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,841

    Clik
    Member

    I may have come across some aluminum sheet and am thinking about changing course with my Henry J build.

    Pros? Cons? Rivet material? Dissimilar metal problems? Gauge required?
     
  2. Is this going to be just for Race or is it going to do time on the street only?
    The Wizzard
     
  3. Sinister Sleds
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 44

    Sinister Sleds
    Member
    from Gloucester

    May want to post more info about what exactly you are trying to do.

    Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
     
  4. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,841

    Clik
    Member

    It's a Henry J, no trunk model, straight axle, 383 SBC, TH400, Kilduff shifter, 9" 410 Currie, 16" cheater slicks. Engine set back is about 14", which would probably put it in a non gasser class back in the day. The block sits down between the frame rails. I just started putting the chassis back together after powder coating. The body is pretty rusty and there are no floors. The firewall will need to be cut to accommodate the engine set back. Interior will be no more than door panels and two seats. Planned to spray the inside of the roof with lizard skin for heat and noise since there will be no headliner. It will see mostly street use but is not intended for creature comfort. I was thinking it might be easier to build the floor to the frame and then the body could be lifted off if I ever wanted to.
     
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  5. Da Tinman
    Joined: Dec 29, 2005
    Posts: 4,226

    Da Tinman
    Member

    No way I'd do floors and firewall out of aluminum. For the record, I did Drag Race interiors for 20 years or so and still do a few here and there.

    In order to get enough strength to withstand walking on and climbing in and out it will have to be .100" minimum, so there is no weight loss. That thickness is also going to be hard to bend and fit.

    Pop rivets are going to work loose and getting it sealed is going to be a nightmare. Spraying Lizard Skin over pop rivets is just going to make changing a loose fastener an incredible pain in the ass.

    Steel firewalls are required with power adders and add a bunch of strength to the center of the car. Even when it wasn't required I did steel firewalls, way to much to gain and there is no benefit to using aluminum.

    Aluminum is great for door panels, dash that kind of stuff, but not for anything holding out fire or for walking on.
     
    1927graham likes this.
  6. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,841

    Clik
    Member

    I wasn't planning to Lizard Skin the floor or firewall. Just the interior roof.

    Thanks for the input.
     
  7. Da Tinman just gave you some grate info.
    Not all Aluminum is created equal. Some forms and some don't. I've done several myself and were I doing your car for you would Not do the floors in Alu. Build a permanent firewall and weld it to the body. Make a Dog House for the setback and trans cover all out of Alu. and fasten them in with Dzuse fasteners so they come out easy. I always do my Trans cover in right and Left half's fastened down the center.
    This is a Super Gas car and it has Tin floors and Firewall Alu. trans, driveshaft and Tubbs. If your worried about weight add Horse Power.
    The Wizzard
    Drive shaft and Tranny cover; 002.jpg
     
  8. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,841

    Clik
    Member

    So, that's two for no aluminum floors. Hmmm.
     
  9. If you see the lines on the floor piece they tell me exactly where my frame tubes are. The Dots are 1/4" holes where I roset weld the pan to the frame rails. After paint I added no skid that's a product used on Skate boards. Comes in a roll and is self sticking, works Grate and has been in place for 6 seasons.
    Alum. floors will sag and come loose in a very short time no matter how you fasten them.
    The Wizzard
     
  10. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 3,037

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Make it three.

    I'll even go so far as to say I prefer to make the firewall, toe boards and floor pan integral with the body. And anything that needs bolting to the floor needs reinforcement underneath, like hat sections or tubing under it. This applies to seats, shifters, belts, roll bars, etc.
     
  11. Well, I guess I'll offer an alternative thought here. On the Anglia, I did use aluminum for the interior - Floor, Tub, Firewall, door panels etc. And it was not heavy, just .060". The square tube frame rails ran right under where your feet go so there was no strength issues at all. It was all on a combination of Machine screws (firewall) and Dzus Fasteners (the rest). Every piece could be removed and the body lifted off over the top of the cage. It was built this was in 1968 and restored this was 40 years later.
    Now granted this was a Race Car, but it did spend about 10 years on the street, only difference was when it was on the street it has some carpet glued in to keep the noise down.
    Blair\'s_MG_3148.jpg

    There was a filler piece between the floor and rock that was not installed in this photo.
     
  12. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,841

    Clik
    Member

    That's exactly what I was thinking of doing HotRodDon. If aluminum and rivets are all that bad, as others have pointed out, are jet planes using something different? But then again, I have had two jet engine mechanics from different places and different eras tell me that if you knew anything about jet engines you would never fly again. One of those guys was a mechanic for Air Force One and the other was E.J. Potter.
     
  13. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 1,816

    gene-koning
    Member

    Sign me up with the no aluminum floors group. I'm sure the aluminum floors have been successfully done before, but I have seen way too many aluminum structures that roll down the highways in our country crack and fail, then to trust it in the floors of my hot rod.

    As far as the aluminum skin on aircraft, I suspect the aluminum sheeting you intend to use is not going to be the same alloy the aircraft aluminum sheeting is. With aluminum, the alloy makes all the difference in the world when it comes to how it performs under stress. Gene
     
  14. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,841

    Clik
    Member

    I haven't looked at the aluminum available closely but it's the same stuff used for large highway signage. I haven't even checked the gauge.
     
  15. Da Tinman
    Joined: Dec 29, 2005
    Posts: 4,226

    Da Tinman
    Member

    FYI, sign material is a semi-hard aluminum, it will be hard to bend, fairly brittle and may crack when you add breaks.

    Not trying to be a smart ass, just hate to see you go thru all the work to get it in there and have to redo it sooner than later.
     
  16. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,841

    Clik
    Member

    Thanks for the warning Tinman.
     
  17. metlmunchr
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 739

    metlmunchr
    Member

    Most common sign material is 5052 H38. H38 means the sheet is cold worked to its hardest obtainable state. That makes it shear and punch more cleanly than softer material but its also much more difficult to bend without cracking. .060" thick material needs to be bent with at least a 3/16" inside radius. Signs I've looked at are typically more on the order of 1/8" thick. That material would need to have a 1/2" inside radius.

    I can say from personal experience that the only way to hold that sort of radius is either using a press brake with a matching radius punch or a leaf brake with a matching radius on the upper leaf. Either option is non standard bend tooling.

    You also have to pay attention to the bend direction vs the direction the sheet has been rolled when using hard tempers. It may bend fine across the grain but crack with the same radius bend along the grain.

    While it can be done if money isn't a problem, this is one of those times where attempting to use "free" material ends up being the most expensive overalll option.
     
  18. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,841

    Clik
    Member

    I have a big homemade brake but not fancy enough to work something like that. I was thinking more along the lines of creating a shelf around the edge of the body and laying flat sheet inside with bracing underneath. Toe board and floor would meet without a brake and lay in frame work. That's if I go that route. Plenty of argument here against going that way.
     
  19. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 4,048

    rooman
    Member

    And you powder coated the chassis already ??? It is normally a good idea to finish the fabrication before starting on the appearance. Some photos of what you have would be a big help in determining what will work best for you. Is the body mounted on the frame in any way? Your statement that the firewall will need to be cut to clear the engine tells me that you have not had this thing mocked up to any great degree. You said that all you need in the interior is floors and door trims but with 14" of engine set back you are going to need some sort of box over the engine no matter how low it sits in the frame. With 16" cheater slicks is it going to need wheel tubs?

    Roo
     
  20. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,841

    Clik
    Member

    I had blasted the frame and it got way to cold to epoxy prime so I ran it to powder coat. No need to tub. Henry J's have bolt on quarters/fenders. I was planning to use Rivnuts to secure floor grid to frame. The front and rear mounts for the body sit right on top of the boxed frame.
     

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